Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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65. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills when a decision will be made in relation to the 2022 leaving certificate; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [4827/22]

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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There has already been much talk regarding the 2022 leaving certificate examination. Deputy Ó Laoghaire and others have put on the record where we stand with regard to the fact that the hybrid version is the only viable solution students and their parents wanted to hear about. They are dealing with a huge level of stress. What engagement was there in trying to deliver it?

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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In recent weeks, I attended a meeting with the advisory group on State examinations, which has representatives of students, parents, teachers, managerial bodies, the further and higher education sector and the State Examinations Commission. As I previously outlined, following on from this meeting, I met with the members of the advisory group on a one-to-one and bilateral basis and had further engagement with each of them thereafter. I listened carefully to what each of these stakeholders had to say and examined each of their points.

Following consideration of this matter by Government today, I announced the decision to operate an examinations approach for leaving certificate in 2022, with significant further adjustments to the examinations, and to provide students with a commitment that the overall results of leaving certificate 2022 will not be lower than in 2021.

As the Deputy may be aware, it would not have been possible to run accredited grades in the same manner as last year because junior cycle data were unavailable for one in four of our students. The further extensive changes I have announced to the examination papers, over and above those announced in August 2021, mean that candidates have greater choice in the papers, fewer questions to answer and still have the same time as in a normal year to complete the examination. Various examples can be given. For the Spanish oral, rather than having five presentations to prepare for in terms of role play, they will only have three. In the sraith pictiúr in Irish, where they would normally have 20 to prepare for, they now have ten. This is, of course, a significant change to the examinations as students would have known them and an accommodation of issues that have been raised by them.

Timeframes for certain assessment elements of the leaving certificate applied examinations have been also pushed out. Schools were also reminded of the flexibilities regarding the dates for completion and authentication of examination course work. Importantly, I also confirmed that junior cycle examinations will take place this summer. Adjustments to the assessment arrangements for junior cycle were published in August 2021 and provide for more teaching time in schools. They include a reduction in the number of CBAs to be completed, the removal of the requirement to complete assessment tasks and adjustments to the requirements in course work and practical performance tests. I believe the decision will provide the junior cycle and leaving certificate students of 2022 with an opportunity for their learning and attainment at the end.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is not the first time that reply has been read out this evening. The Minister talked about three out of four of the asks having been delivered upon but, as I said earlier, the most important one for an awful lot of students and parents has not been delivered. That has been said, however. I do not expect to get a different answer from anybody else.

Those mitigations the Minister talked about with regard to the examination are necessary considering the difficulties. Deputy Ó Laoghaire and others spoke about the fact that not everybody has the same 24 hours and not everybody had the same school year or two-year period. People have been out due to sickness. Teachers have been out and it has an impact. There are probably students who can put a couple of sample papers in front of them and get six A1s but that is not everybody.

The fear we also have is that the Department is absolutely committed to maintaining the leaving certificate and we are not going to see a sign of reform. Could the Minister give me an answer regarding what the reforms are and the planned timeline?

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I must point out to the Deputy that if an answer given the first time is honest, fair and accurate, it will be the same answer I give him the second and, indeed, third and fourth time. If it is a truthful answer first time, it will remain a truthful answer. I have given a truthful answer in this House as regards my engagements, the deliberations concerning leaving certificate 2022 and the junior cycle, engagements I had with the advisory group, parents, students and teachers, the issues that were raised with me by students, in particular, where they asked for clarity and for greater choice in their examinations, which we delivered upon today. I outlined for the Deputy earlier what they were.

Issues of grade inflation were raised by many around the table at the advisory group, which I delivered upon today. Issues regarding accredited grades were raised. I very clearly pointed out to this House in an honest answer the difficulty in that we could not implement accredited grades this year in a similar and fair fashion to how that was implemented last year. For that reason, I maintain the answers I gave the first, second and, indeed, third time

Catherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
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I am repeating the times again. The Deputy has one minute.

Ruairi Ó Murchú (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister. I have no difficulty that she is repeating the answer. I accept some of it. The bit I do not accept is that it was impossible to come up with a solution in this regard. The other question I put related to the fear that students are being short-changed at this point by not being offered the hybrid model. I accept those other necessary mitigations are occurring. The fear is that the Department is wedded to the leaving certificate as is, however, and that the reform that is necessary, which everyone across this House accepts should happen, will not happen, and that is the reason we are in a situation where the hybrid model is not in place.

We all know a significant number of students have not done the junior certificate. I will be clear. Deputy Danny Healy-Rae spoke earlier about full disclosure. My son is doing the leaving certificate. I would probably be a lot happier if he was a bit more stressed about it, but a large number of kids are stressed and we should be trying to deliver for them. Reform into the future is the only thing that will work.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I want to be clear that the reason the hybrid model or accredited grades aspect is not being implemented this year is that when a teacher provides an estimated mark, he or she does so because he or she knows his or her student.

He or she does not know the student in another class whom the teacher has not taught. It is important that there is comparability between the students in a national examination. To achieve that comparability, as I have outlined earlier, we relied upon the junior cycle data belonging to the class of that year group. One in four of the class of 2022 does not have those data. Therefore, we were not in a position to provide the accredited grades in as fair a manner as was provided to the students last year. That is the honest reason as to what has transpired.

I want to be clear that I am committed to senior cycle reform. I am conscious that we need to find a mechanism that can assess the various talents, abilities and skill sets of our students in the widest possible manner. That needs to be incorporated into senior cycle, as indeed does the maximum potential for students going forward to choose whatever pathway they might wish to choose. I am completely committed to it.