Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I am very grateful to the office of the Ceann Comhairle for allowing this very important issue to be aired in the Chamber tonight. I am grateful to the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan for taking the debate.

The issue is that the deer population in County Kerry has exploded beyond what we can put up with. That is the way I will put it. I will let the House know what is happening on a daily basis. If one was to leave Killarney and head out on the Killarney-Cork road from Poulagower down to Kilgarvan and into Sneem, with people going to Glencar, all emanating from the Killarney National Park and from all over, the most common sight one will see on the road is deer. Previously, this used to be very late at night or during the middle of the night when it is quiet but now we can actually have them at any time. We have had young people crashing, and I am sure we have had deaths where people's cars have left the road. The evidence of the deer is not there because it might not have been struck. We have had tragedies over the years that could have been put down to deer coming out onto the road. There is an amount of damage and a monetary cost to people. I will give an example. A fine respectable person was going to work very early in the morning and crashed his car into a deer. The following morning, his fine hard-working son hit a deer. They are neighbours of my own. These are people who were going about their work and who lost two cars out of the one house in two days. It is a daily occurrence now if one is going over Moll's Gap or on any of these roads I have just mentioned. The people in Glencar are haunted with deer. Only last weekend a lady was attacked by a stag and was airlifted to hospital. This is no longer tolerable. This is no longer something we can put up with.

In the past, we had an excellent forester, who I very much compliment because he was a desperately hard-working man. Mr. P.J. Bruton was our forester-in-charge in the Killarney area for many years. When he was in charge, every week he culled 200 deer out of the Killarney National Park. There was an export arrangement for them, they were not being wasted and they were put to good use. This kept our deer figures in check. What happened, however, when he was retired and gone and not in that role anymore? Nobody was doing this. Nobody was organising it. Since then, we have got to the stage where it is not popular to say that we should have a deer cull. If I was looking to be popular I would not be saying what I am telling the Minister of State now. I am saying now that it has gone beyond a cull; at this stage we require an eradication programme because the deer population has increased so much.

I have not even touched yet on what this means for our farming community. I will now give an example of a farmer, who came to me in recent days. I know the Minister of State will appreciate the story. The farmer went into his field in the morning and what was inside in the field? It was 26 deer. That is the same as a herd of cattle from your neighbour being on your grass in the morning and eating all that you had. The Minister of State is aware of the cost of fertiliser, and we have all heard what the cost of fertiliser will be this year. People will be growing grass but could have 60% of it being eaten, in many cases, by roaming deer.

Whatever else a farmer can afford to do, he cannot afford to feed the deer in the national park. I have not even touched on what that means for our fences. The fences farmers are putting up are very expensive. The Minister of State knows how difficult it is to string and put tension on wire surrounding grounds. When deer jump they hit, break, get caught in and destroy fences.

Malcolm Noonan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party)
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Like the Deputy, I wholeheartedly support the sustainable management of the deer population in this country. It is critically important and we have made significant strides in that regard in recent years with the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, in terms of resources and approving the licensing regime for the hunting of deer.

I assume the Deputy's Topical Issue was prompted by the unfortunate incident in Kerry over the weekend where a woman was injured by a stag. I want to extend my sincere sympathy to the woman and wish her a speedy recovery. Attempts have been made to domesticate and hand feed the deer involved in this case. I want to remind people that these are wild animals and should remain as such. With deer, it is important that people stay alert and maintain a reasonable distance of at least 50 m between themselves and a deer. It is also inadvisable to attempt to domesticate or feed a deer or any other wild animal. This practice is not only dangerous, but may be damaging to the ability of the animal to survive and thrive in the wild.

Culling is already a regular and ongoing management operation within our national parks. The NPWS and my Department is committed to the active management of deer species within the State, our State-owned national parks and our nature reserves. As part of its regular ongoing management operations, the NPWS carries out regular census reports on deer on our sites.

Where appropriate, and depending on annual counts or whether it is evident that damage has been caused by deer to habitats, especially woodland, culls may need to be carried out to ensure that deer populations do not reach levels that would be negative to the ecology of the park. Since 2016, more than 2,000 deer have been culled in our national parks, with culls in Killarney National Park accounting for almost 900 of this number. During the 2021 season, 436 deer we culled in Wicklow, 44 in Glenveagh and 234 in Killarney National Park. All of this happened during Covid.

It should be noted that while the NPWS actively manages deer on its properties, it does not own the deer population and is not responsible for the control of deer on private lands. Similarly, it is not responsible for cordoning them off to any specific areas of land. Deer populations are, by their nature, mobile and have a home range that is not constrained by land ownership boundaries. These home ranges are normally defined by physical landscape features such as mountains, lakes, rivers, built-up areas and the availability of a suitable habitat within their home range.

The control of deer on private property is a matter for the relevant landowner. Landowners may apply to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage for permission under section 42 of the Wildlife Acts to cull deer, where necessary, outside of the annual open season. These permissions offer a facility whereby a person can obtain a permit on a case-by-case basis in order to prevent serious damage caused by individual deer on specific lands, something the Deputy highlighted regarding damage to farmlands and forestry. These permissions are only issued where there is evidence of such damage. I will come back with a final response.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I thank the Minister of State. I want to thank the people in County Kerry who are in charge of section 42 licences for always being proactive and diligent about issuing licences. They are not failing in their duty. In his response the Minister of State let the genie out of the bottle because he identified the problem. We should look at the statistics. I am not being critical of the Minister of State, but he boasted that there were 234 deer taken out of Killarney National Park during the season. We were doing that every week in the 1980s. Does the Minister of State understand the problem?

Some 2,000 deer have been culled in national parks throughout the country since 2016. At one time, 200 deer a week were culled when the population was not half of what it is now. The cull is tokenism; it is not a real cull. We need to reduce the number of deer in this country by 70%. That would mean that the remaining deer will go to where they want to be, that is, up in the mountains away from roads and people.

I want to be clear. I have not raised this issue because of the incident to which the Minister of State referred, where a lady was injured by a stag, which I am sorry about. I have called for this cull for the past ten years. The record of the Dáil will show that I have called for this. The only reason there is a token cull is that I have been calling for it so strongly and over such a sustained period of time.

I ask the Minister of State to ensure there is a realistic cull. In County Kerry alone, we have to take out 500 deer per week for the foreseeable future if we are to make any attempt at sending these animals back to the habitat where they should live and want to be. They are being driven down to greener grass because of the numbers. As I said, they are breaking the farmers and putting people's lives in danger. I ask the Minister of State to treat this matter seriously. We are not talking about Bambi; we are talking about people's lives and their property.

Malcolm Noonan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Green Party)
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For clarity, district conservation officers make a call in terms of the management of numbers in national parks. The Deputy is talking about deer populations outside of our nature reserves and national parks. Last year, we managed to significantly improve the provision of section 42 deer hunting licences. I have met the Irish Deer Commission. We need good training for people who are hunting deer so that they can get a clear kill of an animal in the most humane manner possible.

In 2020, 35,134 deer were shot under section 42 licences. Under serious damage licences, 4,684 deer were shot. The Irish Deer Commission had figures for Kerry, where 8,000 deer were culled over a five-year period. The numbers are quite significant when one considers them in conjunction with what we are managing in our national parks and nature reserves, coupled with our licensing regime which has been significantly improved. We aim to move that online in order to further streamline the process.

I have met the Irish Deer Commission and others involved in the hunting fraternity about this. We are aware that it is a problem and it has been highlighted to us in other parts of the country. We are making significant strides in dealing with that. I note the points the Deputy has made. Landowners, farmers and those in forestry are frustrated. Road safety is also an issue. As I said, we will continue to improve the licensing element and ensure we have a sustainable deer population in this country.