Dáil debates

Thursday, 9 December 2021

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions

Enterprise Policy

10:40 am

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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82. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment the steps that have been taken to date in 2021 by his Department to implement the recommendations of the Cahill Duffy report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [61086/21]

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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The Cahill Duffy report was presented to the then Minister in March 2016 following concerns about redundancies of the former Clerys employees. The authors made a number of proposals to enhance the statutory protections and entitlements of employees made redundant in a situation where the assets of a business are separated from the operating company. What steps is the Department taking on the implementation of the recommendations made in that report in 2016?

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for the question, which gives me an opportunity to provide an update on the report and our action plan. Ireland has a robust suite of legislation to protect and support workers facing redundancies. The Cahill Duffy report was in response to particular terms of reference that were quite narrow and specific and do not address the generality of redundancies that arise in insolvency situations.

Following extensive engagement with the social partners, the Oireachtas committee and many others over the past 18 months, the plan for action on collective redundancies following insolvency was published on 9 June this year by the Minister of State, Deputy Troy, and I. This sets out several commitments to safeguard further the rights of workers in these circumstances, including a range of amendments to company law and employment law, setting up an employment law review group on a statutory basis and the provision of an accessible guidance document to help workers and their representatives navigate the existing legal framework. The guidance document has just been completed and will be published shortly. It will provide clear and accessible information for employees facing a collective redundancy situation following a company insolvency. It will be of great assistance because there has been much misinformation in many cases. The Deputy referenced Debenhams. There was much misinformation at that time. The guidance will be very useful to enhance the work that has been completed by the unions.

The following recommendations were progressed in the Companies (Rescue Process for Small and Micro Companies) Act 2021, which was signed into law this week. It amends section 627 to clarify that the liquidator has power to bring or defend proceedings before the Workplace Relations Commission and Labour Court. It amends section 587 to oblige the liquidator and director to ensure creditors are made aware they have the right to form and participate in a committee of inspection. This includes employees. It amends section 666 to provide that where a committee of inspection is appointed it shall include at least one employee creditor member. Work on drafting amendments to the Protection of Employment Act 1977 will commence in quarter 1 of 2022.

The remaining company law recommendations will also be progressed next year. The employment law review group will initially be established on a non-statutory basis as early as possible in 2022. This will be very useful. This complementary range of measures will promote the provision of quality information, enhance participation and transparency for those workers facing a collective redundancy following company insolvency and will also provide for the continued development of employment law in general. This is a positive development.

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response. I appreciate the fact the Act will come into law this week and it will be important. There are real concerns that once the employer support schemes introduced during the pandemic end there may be many business closures throughout the State. Everyone has this concern. Unfortunately, in many cases employees will be made redundant when businesses collapse. Would it not be more prudent to have the recommendations in the Cahill Duffy report implemented in advance of this possibility? I do not think the Minister has done enough on this one. Such a step could protect workers who will face similar shutdowns as those experienced by the then workers at Clerys and as we saw in Debenhams recently. We witnessed how disgracefully the former workers at Debenhams were treated last year without the report recommendations being implemented. We witnessed how they had to camp outside their former places of employment in an effort to ensure the assets of the company were not transferred out of the State. It is five years since the report was published. I do not believe there has been a serious attempt by the Government to implement the recommendations of the report in full.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I have to point out the Cahill Duffy report was in response to particular terms of reference that were quite narrow with regard to the case in Clerys.

The authors of that report presented it to the Deputy’s committee and quite clearly said that the implementation of their report would not have prevented what happened in Debenhams. That was very loud and clear. We have allowed a discussion on this with the Deputy.

10:50 am

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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I think that is an opinion from the Minister of State.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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As a result of what happened in Debenhams, the Tánaiste, the Minister of State, Deputy Troy and myself met with the employees at Debenhams and said that in line with the programme for Government, we would review the legislation to see if we could strengthen, enhance and make it better. It was from that that the plan of action would come. It is not a case of saying that if we implemented all of the recommendations of the Duffy Cahill report that would have solved Debenhams or any other redundancies.

On potential redundancies in the months ahead, I think the Deputy will appreciate that the response during Covid-19 over the past 18 months has been to try to keep businesses open and to prevent the loss of jobs. Every effort has gone into that. Yes, it is possible there will be some redundancies in the new year but we will do everything we can to prevent that from happening and that is what the business supports are there for.

Photo of Maurice QuinlivanMaurice Quinlivan (Limerick City, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister of State. I think we will to have to agree to disagree on the Debenhams issue. When the Minister of State addressed questions on this issue in June of last year he said that on the Tánaiste’s direction, a review was to be undertaken into the matter, including legislation in this space to determine if they could do anything to strengthen the position. Part of the Government’s stated plan was to involve some of the recommendations of the Duffy Cahill report but not all six of them. Can the Minister of State provide a rationale as to why the Government is not now considering all six recommendations to be implemented? I ask this because one should consider the fact that Mr. Duffy advised the Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment that the employment law proposals in the report were part of a package that should be implemented in full rather than picking and choosing those which one liked, otherwise it would not make sense and would be incapable of operation. We have a real concern that when the employment supports are withdrawn, which they will be, and when we move out of the pandemic, many companies will collapse with people losing their jobs.

Photo of Damien EnglishDamien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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We all have a concern and that is why we are committed to this and there is a fund set aside to work with businesses and to support them right through the final stages of Covid-19, and recovery from that into the new year. There will be more announcements in that space today. We are very much committed to saving these jobs. I have not seen the Deputy’s committee report on the Duffy Cahill report or read it in detail but it is wrong in the view of the Government, and I will keep saying this, to continually say that implementation of the Duffy Cahill report could have prevented what happened in Debenhams. That is not the case and the authors very clearly said that also. We have engaged in work with the Duffy Cahill report and with numerous other reports. We have reviewed the legislation. We are making the changes and have a plan of action. This has been accepted by all relevant stakeholders in this space, including by the employees of Debenhams. Separate from that, a fund was put in place to assist the Debenhams workers which opened on 1 November of this year, if I remember correctly. It is open for two years and approximately 458 of those workers have engaged with that and are using those funds to assist them find new work or start new businesses, which is a positive development.