Dáil debates

Thursday, 9 December 2021

Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions

Covid-19 Pandemic

10:30 am

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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80. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if his Department has estimated the number of expected redundancies resulting from the pandemic in 2022; the steps he is taking to minimise this; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [61085/21]

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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The question is fairly straightforward. It concerns whether or not the Tánaiste has an estimate of the number of expected redundancies that will result from the pandemic. I understand that efforts have been made to save jobs. I appreciate that that has been a priority for the Government. However, it is inevitable that redundancies will arise out of the pandemic. I know there was consideration at committee last week of legislation in this regard. I am seeking an estimate on the scale of it.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for her question. Since the outbreak of Covid-19 here in March 2020, the Government has sought to save as many lives and as many livelihoods as possible. The early introduction of the temporary wage subsidy scheme, TWSS, and its longer term successor, the employment wage subsidy scheme, EWSS, provided immediate assistance. This was followed by many targeted measures for business which have been critical in keeping them afloat and preventing redundancies. We acted swiftly to prevent the closure of viable companies experiencing temporary pressures on liquidity making temporary amendments to the Companies Act 2014 in respect of insolvency.

On Tuesday I signed an order commencing the new small companies administrative rescue process, SCARP, legislation. I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Troy, for leading on this initiative. From this week, small and micro enterprises have access to a new restructuring and rescue process mirroring examinership, but in an administrative form. It is designed to be cheaper and faster than the court-sponsored examinership system. Taken together with the range of grants and loans available, we should save viable businesses and jobs that would otherwise have been lost.

Last week's labour force survey revealed that more than 110,000 people returned to work in the third quarter of this year. Encouragingly, employment is up in every region and every sector. At the end of November, the number of people on the pandemic unemployment payment had fallen to 54,824, its lowest level to date. We are not able to project how many of those will become redundant.

While many sectors are rebounding relatively quickly, a smooth recovery is certainly not guaranteed and the announcement last Friday of the reimposition of some restrictions is a reminder to us all in that regard. Redundancies in some businesses will regrettably arise. We do not have a definitive measure of redundancies arising, as distinct from job losses or gains. The measures we do have, such as collective redundancy notifications and redundancy claims from the Social Insurance Fund, SIF, give only a partial picture. That said, after a surge last year, both have dropped significantly in 2021. Redundancy claims from the Social Insurance Fund for this year are below 2019 levels. More people became redundant in 2019, before the pandemic, than in this year of the pandemic. Collective redundancy notifications have dropped approximately 40% from 2020 levels.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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This is my issue. As the Tánaiste mentioned the drop in the number of people receiving the PUP, he might use his own platform to deal with some of what comes from people like Pat McDonagh, who say that those on the PUP are living it large and they will not go back to work. All of the available evidence actually suggests that the minute work is available, people are straight back at it and they want to be back in work. The difficulty for people in the private sector and those working in small companies, in particular, is having available staff and supports there to get them through the process. The Tánaiste has heard me say many times that the best defence any worker can have is to join a union. Where there is a union and a process, that is one element of it. However, the unfortunate things is that many people do not have that, so there will need to be additional staff to shepherd people through. It is not easy to become redundant. It is awful to lose your job, but to have to deal with the paperwork then when you may never have had experience of that before is difficult. I want to hear from the Tánaiste that his Department will provide additional resources to help people through the process.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I will certainly examine that. If more resources and staff are needed, we will provide them. I accept the Deputy's point that it can be difficult for people to work through the redundancy process. Some of us have experience of it, but it is more complicated than people may think. The Deputy's point is well made in that regard.

On the number of people on the PUP, at its peak there were 650,000 people in receipt of that payment. That is down to around 55,000 now. It should be evident to everyone that more than nine out of ten of the people who were on the PUP went back to work. To characterise all people on the PUP in any sort of negative way is totally wrong. The statistics do not lie. More than nine out of ten people on the PUP went back to work as soon as they had the opportunity to do so. For those who are still on it, around 55,000 people, we are working with them on an individual basis, helping with job searches, education and training opportunities and such. There are also control measures in place, because a small, but a not tiny, number may not currently be in the State or may be working and claiming at the same time. We need to work on that.

Photo of Louise O'ReillyLouise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I welcome that the resources will be provided. It really is not easy. People need to know the timeframes involved in respect of claiming the SIF. These are things that are not widely known. They are questions that I get asked. I am sure the Tánaiste is asked them himself. I have never been made redundant, but I have been through the redundancy process. Collective redundancies are not easy on the people being made redundant, but when they are in a bigger group, they do have that support. Notwithstanding the SCARP, if that does not work, the company is gone and the person does not have those supports, it is really difficult for them to claim from the SIF or go to the WRC when they have not been given the requisite paperwork. I encourage the Tánaiste to have a list of FAQs put onto the Department's website. I know that information is available on the WRC website. It is not that easy to understand and digest. I believe that there will be high numbers of people who will need that support in the early part of 2022.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I will certainly talk to the Secretary General at the Department about that and see if it can be done. One might say that what is happening in the economy is a bit peculiar. We are facing a pandemic, yet in the face of that pandemic the economy is growing very rapidly. There are 2.4 million people at work. We think that next year there will be more people at work in Ireland than ever before. Most sectors are doing extremely well, but there are some sectors that have been hit really hard. We have always had two economies in Ireland, but we really have two economies now, because there are the affected sectors and the unaffected sectors. Interestingly, statistically, 5,452 potential collective redundancies were notified in 2019. That rose to 12,514 last year. There have only been 7,500 such notifications to date this year. Nobody can say for sure what will happen next year. However, it is of note that the number of collective redundancies notified this year is half of what it was last year.