Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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96. To ask the Minister for Health the position of his Department on the decriminalisation of drug users; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [51980/21]

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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I tried to put this question concerning the decriminalisation of drug users to the Minister for Justice, but it was redirected to the Department of Health, which I am sure will be of interest to those who have criminal convictions for possession of controlled substances for personal use. I will be interested to know the Department of Health's view of the potential for the decriminalisation of the drug user.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I offer the apologies of the Minister of State with responsibility for public health, well-being and national drugs strategy, Deputy Feighan. He cannot be here because of Covid-19 restrictions. I am taking the question on his behalf.

Under the national drugs strategy, the Government established a working group to consider alternative approaches to the possession of drugs for personal use in December 2017. The working group examined the option of decriminalising drugs and did not deem this an appropriate option in the Irish context due to legal difficulties, which could lead to the de factolegalisation of drugs and operational problems for An Garda Síochána. The Government published this report in 2019. We cannot be complacent about the risk to health posed by illicit drugs. The Government is committed to a public health approach to drug use that will lead to better outcomes for individuals and society. There are no plans therefore to decriminalise or legalise drugs.

In line with the working group’s recommendations, the Government agreed a health-led approach to the possession of drugs for personal use, namely, the health diversion programme. This approach will offer compassion and not punishment to people who use drugs. It will connect people who use drugs with health services and a pathway to recovery, thereby avoiding a criminal conviction, which can have far-reaching consequences for people, particularly younger people. The implementation of the health diversion programme is being finalised in conjunction with the Department of Justice, An Garda Síochána and the HSE.

One of the strategic priorities of the Minister of State, Deputy Feighan, for the remaining four years of the national drugs strategy is to promote alternatives to coercive sanctions for drug-related offences. As well as the roll-out of the health diversion programme, other initiatives to be supported include the drug treatment court and the drug treatment services of the Probation Service. A particular emphasis will be placed on the exchange of best practice on alternatives to coercive sanctions in EU member states, under the EU drugs strategy and action plan.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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There are several issues with the response from the Minister of State. The use of language in this debate is extremely important. I referred to the decriminalisation of the "drug user", while the response from the Minister of State refers to the "decriminalisation of drugs" and continues with a reference to the legalisation of drugs. Decriminalisation and legalisation are completely different issues, as are decriminalisation of the drug user and decriminalisation of drugs.

I am talking about the person, and the decriminalisation of the person. If the Minister of State had come in here at the beginning of the pandemic and said that the solution to Covid-19 was to arrest everyone who gets it, everybody would have thought she was out of her mind. People at the start of the pandemic would have regarded people working on the front line or living in poor conditions, for example, as victims of this virus, not as people who should be penalised by the State. It would be a ridiculous response from the State to arrest people because they have Covid-19, but that is exactly what the State does in respect of people with addiction issues. We arrest them for possession of something they are addicted to. It does not work. We have the fourth highest overdose rate in Europe.

People are dying and the response-----

Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputy. We are out of time.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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The health-----

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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-----must be much more compassionate than misinformed answers on the floor of this House.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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I do not accept that it is a misinformed answer. The health diversion programme will connect participants with health services and it will provide a pathway to treatment and recovery where there is problematic drug use. It will also allow participants to avoid a criminal conviction. An interdepartmental group, chaired by representatives of the Department of Health, is considering legal advice from the Office of the Attorney General and the formal views of the Garda Commissioner. The group, as the Deputy may know, is chaired by the former Minister of State and Deputy, Kathleen Lynch, who is doing an excellent job. I have been working closely with her in that regard, as has the Minister of State, Deputy Feighan. Certain legal procedures and logistical issues must be clarified before this roll-out can commence. However, we are not burying our heads in the sand on this issue. We are acutely conscious of the linkages between mental health, dual diagnosis, addiction and court proceedings, and much work has been done in this regard.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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I am sorry. The Minister of State's proposal is that people will get a criminal sanction if they are caught a third time. What is the difference? If someone is acutely and profoundly addicted to something, surely the hundredth time that he or she has an intervention because of that addiction should have the same response as the third time. What is utterly heartbreaking about this is that the people affected are powerless. If they had more power and more value in society, we would not be treating them like this and they would not be ending up in graveyards at the rate they are. It is because they are disproportionately poor that they are treated by the State in this fashion.

I suggest to the Minister of State that the proposal for a citizens' assembly on drugs be fast-tracked, she put to one side her current proposal on how to deal with people in addiction and look instead to the Portuguese model, which is much more humane and has successfully reduced the number of people in addiction programmes by 50%. Crucially, it has also reduced the number of people dying from overdoses by 75%.

Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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I thank the Deputy.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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We have the fourth highest overdose rate in Europe. The Minister of State should please understand the difference between decriminalisation of drugs and decriminalisation of the drug user.

Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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The Deputy's time is up.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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They are completely different things, and the Minister of State needs to understand that.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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There is no reason for the Deputy to shout across the floor at me. I am taking this question on behalf of the Minister of State, Deputy Feighan, who cannot be here due to Covid-19. A little respect would go a long way.

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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I want respect for those dying as a result of this issue. I also want a citizens' assembly on drugs.

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Why did the Deputy not do that when he was Minister of State with responsibility for the national drugs strategy?

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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Is that the response? This over and back and "Why did you not do it"?

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Why did the Deputy not do it?

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin (Dublin Bay North, Labour)
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Where is the citizens' assembly?

It is in the programme for Government. Is that the Minister's response?

Stephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Why did the Deputy not do it then instead of shouting down others now?

Marc Ó Cathasaigh (Waterford, Green Party)
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The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, is on her feet and I would be glad to hear her answer.

Mary Butler (Waterford, Fianna Fail)
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Could I request, when I am on my feet, that the Deputy's microphone might be turned off so I can get the opportunity to reply? The report of the working group on alternative approaches to the possession of drugs for personal use published in 2019 noted difficulties with decriminalisation in the Irish legal context. In Portugal, personal possession of drugs carries an administrative sanction. The concept of administrative sanctions for a criminal offence is not compatible with the Irish legal system. Therefore, in Ireland, drug use will remain a criminal offence but people will be diverted from the criminal justice system to avoid criminal conviction.