Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Before proceeding to Leaders' Questions, I want to remind Members and all in attendance that they are asked to exercise personal responsibility in respect of protecting themselves and others from the risk of contracting Covid-19. Members are strongly advised to practice good hand hygiene and observe the checkerboard seating arrangement. They should also maintain an appropriate level of social distancing during and after the sitting. Masks, preferably of a medical grade, should be worn at all times during the sitting except when speaking and I ask Members for their full co-operation, as usual, in this regard.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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12 o’clock

A Thaoisigh, glac cúpla nóiméad agus éist leis na focail labhair Nancy Healy agus Susan Ní Bhriain ar Nuacht TG4 aréir. Bhí cumhacht millteanach leis na focail, úinéirí tithe i dTír Chonaill. Labhair siad ar son mórchuid na ndaoine atá thíos leis agus atá cráite ag an scannal mica inár gcontae agus i Maigh Eo agus contaetha eile.

Tá sé soiléir nach scéim 100% í seo atá fógartha ag an Rialtas agus níl siad sásta. Mar shampla, tá siad á rá go bhfuil costas €60,000 sa bhreis orthu mar nach bhfuil na costais sin clúdaithe sa scéim. Éist leis an méid a ndúirt na daoine seo.

Yesterday, instead of dealing with the woeful deficiencies relating to the mica and pyrite redress scheme that have been highlighted by us in the Opposition and the homeowners, the Taoiseach chose to come here and deflect. While he may not want to listen to me, and that is fine, but why not listen to the words of those affected because they know better than him and me about what this scheme really means for them? They have lived this and waited for yesterday's announcement. They know the numbers better than any of us.

Ms Barbara Clinton of the North Mayo Pyrite Group stated:

The sliding scale has to go. We are coming up to Christmas and we thought today was going to be positive. We thought we would be there but we are not. For an average home there is a shortfall of €45,000. This is a nightmare scenario for families.

Mr. Michael Doherty of the Mica Action Group stated: "For even the smallest of houses, people will have to put their hands in their pockets". Ms Angelene Kelly from Inishowen peninsula said the cheapest quote she could get to rebuild her home is €155 per square foot and estimates she will need to cover a shortfall of almost €64,000 under the Government's proposals announced yesterday. She said:

I am absolutely devastated, disgusted and disappointed. I feel that our Government has just driven a final nail in the coffin for the mica homeowners. Where did this sliding scale come out of?

This is the question I have for the Taoiseach today. Where did the sliding scale come from? Yesterday, he said it was based on the Society of Chartered Surveyors of Ireland, SCSI, calculator but it does not use a sliding scale. I told the Taoiseach yesterday when we dealt with Leaders' Questions that the SCSI shows through its calculator the real cost for demolishing and rebuilding a house in the north west and it is way above what was announced by the Government yesterday.

Donegal County Council has told the Government that the tender price received from contractors to demolish and rebuild the first 43 houses that have come through the existing scheme is an average of €150 per square foot. That takes in all the house and not just the first 1,000 sq. ft. The Government's proposals go nowhere near that. This is not 100% redress; it is nowhere near it.

The Government must go back to the drawing board. There are measures in yesterday's announcement that I welcome and I have no hesitation in saying that. They have been delivered in respect of rental, storage and testing costs. All those are acceptable but the point is that is no use to families in Buncrana, Inishowen, Milford, Letterkenny, Lifford, County Mayo and other affected counties if they have to come up with €45,000, €55,000 or €65,000 to put towards remediating a house. These families are carrying large mortgages for the houses they built in the first place. This has happened through no fault of their own.

Will the Taoiseach get rid of the sliding scale and allow us to have a scheme that can be built on?

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I dtús báire, ní aontaím leis an Teachta. Is léir gur pacáiste den scoth atá ann faoi láthair. Is léir gur dhein an tAire, an Teachta Darragh O’Brien, an-chuid oibre chun scéim i bhfad níos fearr agus níos fairsinge a chur i bhfeidhm. I mo thuairim tá dul chun cinn an-mhór le feiscint agus is fiú é sin a admháil. I ndeireadh a ráitis dhein an Teachta iarracht é sin a admháil. Is é go bunúsach atá i gceist ag an Teachta ná go bhfuil fonn air an feachtas a choimeád ar siúl. Is é sin an bun rud i dtaobh a pháirtí.

The Government has made a comprehensive response to the mica issue. The scheme announced yesterday by the Minister is expansive, with an extra €800 million to bring about a €2.2 billion scheme that will deal comprehensively with the issues raised by residents. Our only objective is to ensure residents can get their homes rebuilt. The Deputy keeps saying the Government should return to the table, but his party never turned up to the table and that is the problem. He wants to keep the campaign going and is refusing to say, as we said yesterday, that the square footage rate is based on SCSI methodology.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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No, it is not.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Hear me out. I did not interrupt. It is indicative and we said it would be updated. The Minister said that yesterday and Deputy Doherty ignored that today.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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There is no relationship-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The SCSI calculator will be updated only next April and annually thereafter. We have said that consistently. Additionally, we have got rid of the upfront cost; the 10% contribution is gone and there is certification for remedial work. If that does not work, the Government will give the people the option of a second response. There have been huge advances and Deputy Doherty should acknowledge them, and not in the very begrudging way he did towards the end of his contribution. He invented figures for the average cost per square foot. There is no Central Statistics Office or local property tax data to back up his claim about the average home affected by mica and so forth.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Donegal County Council has it.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The data does not exist.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It does exist.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, please.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are not asking families to come with €45,000 or €60,000. We have an upfront grant of €20,000 to cover rent and storage. We have got rid of upfront costs and the 10% contribution. We are bringing in the Housing Agency to play a central role in all of this. Our fundamental objective is to facilitate families to get their homes rebuilt. We will do that and spare them the cost of having to do it. The Minister will work with SCSI on indicative costs and we have built that into the overall cost of the scheme with regard to inflation and so forth. It will take a number of years to get houses remediated and rebuilt. I think we all agree on that.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Jesus Christ-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please.

Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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----does the Taoiseach not understand this? Is every single homeowner who has rejected the scheme wrong? They know their own lived experience because they need the house that is crumbling around them fixed. They are facing another Christmas where they do not know where they will be next Christmas. These houses are in a terrible state and they need a proper scheme.

We came in here on the basis of what was said to campaigners yesterday morning to welcome this scheme in the main. That was what was going to happen. However, the Cabinet got hold of this and butchered it. The reality is the SCSI indicates the cost of rebuilding a house in the north west is way higher that what is indicated under this scheme. The Government has taken the SCSI figure and butchered it with "economies of scale" that will remain in future. It is there on page seven in the questions and answers section.

The Taoiseach stated I have made up figures. He might listen to what Donegal County Council has done in processing the existing scheme. The average house size that has gone through that give the figures I put on record yesterday. More important, 43 tenders have come in with the cost to demolish those houses and rebuild them. The homeowners do not want to make a penny out of this; they just want their homes built. Donegal County Council has told the Government, including the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy McConalogue, and the Taoiseach that it is a cost of €150 per square foot. If the Taoiseach really wants to do what he just said, get rid of the sliding scale. Engineers and surveyors have said they do not know where it comes from. The SCSI does not have it in its calculator. Get rid of it and we can work on this scheme.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The time is up. Could we stick with parliamentary language, please?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is feigned outrage from the Deputy, all designed around the campaign. That is what he is at. I can see through him.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Stop. Try living in Donegal.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Mac Lochlainn, you are not the leader of Sinn Féin.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have this to say to the residents and homeowners.

We are working on this. We have worked on it for the past year, as has the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien.

Mark Ward (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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You still got it wrong.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Mac Lochlainn is shouting and roaring at me now. He endorsed the last scheme and said it was fine. We will ensure-----

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Not at all. The people of Donegal gave it a chance and we will not be fooled twice.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----that we get houses started now. I want no more delays. I want no more endless campaigning for the sake of the campaigning and exploiting it for political or electoral interests.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Stop and do the right thing.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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My only interest now is the homeowners. In February, the Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland will update its costs of square footage and so on.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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Do it now.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has said that the square footage rate is indicative. Equally, deep down Deputy Mac Lochlainn knows that the larger the house, the bigger the economies of scale. This is factored in. We do not want a scheme that will disadvantage smaller houses. If the Deputy looks at the local property tax and Central Statistics Office data, he will find houses in and around the €200,000-€250,000 range. We will not have homeowners forking out €40,000. We have no interest in having a situation like that for the average homeowner. It is wrong to create the fear and feigned anger and so on that I witnessed this morning.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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It is not fear. Has the Taoiseach listened to the families over the past 24 hours?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There have been some very good efforts made here.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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I understand the Omicron variant is in Ireland. The Taoiseach might take the opportunity in his reply to confirm what he knows about this. It is important that the House is updated immediately on this. Obviously, it is a very serious, but not surprising, issue for us.

I wish to raise the matter of the two letters issued by the Department of Education and the Chief Medical Officer, CMO, on school masks in primary schools, because there is utter confusion in relation to how this was done. The communication process around it was nothing short of diabolical. We support public health advice. I have a son who is ten, a daughter who is 11 and a wife who is a primary school teacher. This measure protects teachers and children. I appreciate and support that. However, for 20 months the Taoiseach has been saying that schools are safe. It took the Government five days to make a decision on these new mask rules, but it gave schools 16 hours notice. Last night's communications arrived after six o'clock when principals had finished. What sort of way is that to communicate with the principals of Ireland in primary schools and boards of management, who have gone through so much over the last year and three quarters in dealing with this virus and keeping the education system going? Surely, there should have been a communications process whereby principals and unions were engaged with, but also children were engaged with. There is a huge difference from a developmental point of view between a nine-year-old and a 15-year-old. This cannot just happen overnight and that is what is being asked. I understand, despite questions from my colleague, Deputy Ó Ríordáin, the Minister of Education has now clarified that there will be a couple of days' grace. Ultimately, this measure is mandatory, and that is fine, but the communications process around it has been frankly diabolical.

Principals were at school gates this morning wondering what they were meant to do. It will be the same tomorrow. There are communication issues regarding the volume of kids who come from non-national backgrounds, for instance. One cannot just push a light switch and think that this will operate perfectly. It will not. There are issues with GPs. Their time cannot be taken up giving out exemptions for masks to kids in school. The GPs are wrecked. There are issues about where they will get all the masks if they have to give more masks to kids during school because I suspect they will need multiple masks during school. Also, there are issues with mixed classes.

The real and most important issue I want to ask the Taoiseach about is what the legal basis for this is and has he guaranteed that principals are legally protected? If they refuse entry to a kid into school, are they legally protected by this State? I note the pdf sent out had no signature on it and was not on headed paper. I want to know if this is non-statutory guidance or if it has a legislative basis. If someone rocks up to the High Court to challenge this, will the Government defend the principal, who will be the person taken to court? This is a critical question. The principals of Ireland are genuinely concerned about this. I am not making this up. They have been on to me and Deputy Ó Ríordáin and are really concerned. What happens if someone challenges them on this? Are they legally protected?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I accept what the Deputy has said in that this is a public health measure which he welcomes and accepts. He also said that he accepts it is a requirement and that it is fine. I accept that in good faith. It is a public health measure. The Chief Medical Officer and deputy Chief Medical Officer have expressed to the Government their deep concern about the very rapid increase in the incidence of Covid in five-year-olds to 11-year-olds and, critically, the parents of those children as well. As part of the general measures to reduce community transmission and the volume of incidences in the community, this is now a measure they recommend. It is also to protect education and our schools.

Of course, the idea of children wearing masks is not new. The Deputy is correct in saying there are developmental differences between nine-year-olds and 13-year-olds, 14-year-olds and 15-year-olds. Nonetheless, mask wearing has been a requirement for over 13-year-olds and has not generated any huge issues. There may have been a legal case or two taken that did not hold up. I do not have the details of that to hand, but I can check that and come back to the Deputy in respect of what happened at post-primary level. Suffice to say that mask wearing has been a requirement at post-primary level for quite some time and has operated on the ground. I would also add that there are clear directions in terms of mixed classes as to what is to happen. In terms of the guidelines, as ever in education, school management know and will engage with their community and will be attentive to the needs of students and individual students. Obviously, for special needs children, there will not be a requirement if it is not suitable nor should there be. The wearing of masks could be difficult and challenging for children with special needs and for children that may have issues with masks. There has to a be common sense, practical approach to this and I think in the main, there will be.

Overall, we have to look at this as a collective. There has to be a societal response. That is how we have got through this pandemic up to now. Where there are high incidence rates in the community, we have to take a community-wide approach to reduce the level of incidence and, for example, that is the case with vaccinations. We now have 93.5% of those over 18 vaccinated. Yet, one of the problems when one looks at what is happening in hospitals, 48% of Covid hospitalisationa are unvaccinated; 50% in ICU are unvaccinated; and 2% are partially vaccinated. One can see the huge disparity. The point I am making is that the community-based response is crucial and it also applies to mask wearing. It is challenging and I appreciate that. It is not something I am entirely 100% comfortable with as a person, a parent and as a former teacher. I am very much alive to the different situations that can apply in different schools, localities, backgrounds and so on. We have to be sensitive to all that.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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Not being comfortable with it is one thing; not being legal is another. I am concerned about this. There is a big difference between primary and secondary schools. Many people have followed the guidance but will have an objection to this. I do not, but some do. I want to know that principals are protected. We have trawled to see what the legal basis is to cover principals and boards of management and we cannot find any. The announcement was on non-headed note paper. There was no signature on the PDF that was sent out. What is the legal basis that protects principals and boards of management?

If somebody is not allowed into school, how will it affect his or her attendance record? There is a legal basis in law regarding kids having to go to school. What happens in this instance? Kids have a constitutional, legal right to an education. I ask the Taoiseach once more: are principals and boards of management legally protected? What is the legal basis under which this measure operates? We as a Legislature need to know that.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Principals and teachers administrating public health policy in the middle of a global pandemic will be protected.

I will just make the point that this is a policy position in the middle of a global pandemic. School principals and management will be protected in applying public health policy. I pay tribute to principals and teachers across the length and breadth of the country who collectively agree, as do all of us in this House, that we want children in schools because-----

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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What is the legal basis?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy hear me out please? Developmentally, children being in school trumps everything. The development needs of children regress or are undermined if they are out of school for any prolonged period. That is the context here. To protect that central objective, the public health advice recommends the wearing of masks. The Chief Medical Officer and the deputy chief medical officer are of the view that this will help in reducing overall transmission and will protect schools and the education system.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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What is the legal framework for this?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legal framework is obviously that, from a public health perspective, our fundamental obligation is to protect the public from this virus.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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Are the principals protected? The Taoiseach is not answering that question.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not going to arbitrate on what would transpire should people take challenges and so on.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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The Taoiseach is not answering the question. He cannot answer it because there is no answer.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I dispute that. The Deputy is not a constitutional lawyer.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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No, but I can still get advice.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I accept the point and I can see-----

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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I can get advice before issuing a circular.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I can see the conflicting arguments that will ultimately transpire. I accept the Deputy's bona fides in saying that this is the right thing to do. I agree with that.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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Yes, but there must be a legal basis for it. The Taoiseach did not come in here with legislation to provide for this. There needs to be a basis for regulations. Will the Taoiseach tell the principals who are going to be at the gates of schools what he has told me?

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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The Taoiseach comes from a family with a tradition of boxing. I believe he has a couple of years on me but, like myself, he will remember the greats of the 1970s and how they would manoeuvre their opponents onto the ropes and punish them with a seemingly never-ending barrage of body blows. Ordinary people are being punished with a seemingly never-ending barrage of financial body blows in the form of these price hikes from the energy companies. They suffer blow after blow after blow. This morning, there were two more. SSE Airtricity hiked its gas and electricity prices by 9% while Pinergy hiked its by 19%. These are the 34th and 35th energy price hikes, the 34th and 35th financial body blows from energy companies, in this year alone. For the ordinary householder, this is a hit of approximately €700 to €800 for the year. For many, it is over €1,000. For some, these price hikes represent a grave danger. Every winter, large numbers of our people die from the cold. Some years, it is 1,000 people. Sometimes, it is 1,500. It is not unknown for 2,000 people to die in this way. The excess winter death rate for this country is consistently one of the highest in all of Europe, higher even than the rate in many colder countries such as Norway. Those who die are far more likely to be old and to be poor. They do not really die of the cold but of fuel poverty and an inability to afford to heat their homes in Ireland in the 21st century.

What is the Taoiseach going to do about this? Is he going to stand idly by and watch the likes of the ESB make profits of €363 million in the first six months of this year alone while households struggle to make ends meet and old people die? To date, the Taoiseach has done very little. He has increased the fuel allowance by a miserable €5 and promised to consider reducing the VAT rate on gas and electricity from 13.5% to 12%, which would be a miserable cut. How long are his deliberations going to take? Today is the first day of December. The coldest months are on us now. The Taoiseach needs to act quickly. What is he going to do and when will he get around to doing it?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising the serious issue of rising gas prices and energy prices more generally. This is a problem across Europe and the globe. In anticipation of that, we increased the fuel allowance and brought in a set of social protection measures in the budget that are designed to help people deal with this issue. I said "help" because it does not cover it in its entirety. We have also introduced a taxation package. The social protection package comes to approximately €550 million and the taxation package comes to in and around €520 million. This gives extra disposable income to people to deal with this issue. We are also looking at other measures and ascertaining whether we can do more to reduce household bills, particularly household energy and electricity bills. We recognise that this is very challenging for many families. The budget was designed around helping people with the cost of living. The European Central Bank is clear that it is still holding to the view that this is a temporary spike in energy prices and that prices will reduce in the first half of 2022.

With regard to VAT, as I have illustrated before, we are not in a position to reduce VAT to 0% or anything like that, as has been suggested. It just cannot be done because of the decisions we have already taken to opt for a lower rate of VAT on energy more generally. Under European Union rules, our reduced rate of VAT, 13.5%, on energy cannot be reduced below 12%. If we were to attempt to reduce the rate to, for example, 9% for a few months, the rate would revert to the standard rate of 23% afterwards because we got a derogation a long time ago in respect of the lower rate. I know other parties have suggested that we go back to 0% but I have been informed we simply cannot under the EU frameworks we operate under with regard to VAT. However, we are looking at other ways to see if we can reduce the impact of these current increases in energy prices on household bills.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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When older people are freezing in their homes this winter, will the Taoiseach knock on the door and tell them that it is all right because the European Central Bank says the spike is only temporary? He should get real. There is a need for action. He has said that this is a Europe-wide crisis and it is. Is the Taoiseach aware of the fact that, under massive pressure from their populations, the Governments of Spain, Greece and, I think, Italy have implemented far-ranging measures to alleviate the pressures on households? The Taoiseach went through what he has done but only mentioned one real concrete measure, that is, the €5 on the fuel allowance. I will tell him a few things he could do. He could bring in a top maximum unit rate for gas and electricity. He could increase the fuel allowance by €15 a week. He could make that allowance more available. He could scrap the carbon tax or at least stop the hikes for this year. He could refund people the money raised by the State through taxes on electricity and gas bills. Last but not least, he could take the energy industry into public ownership. He could allow the ESB to operate on a not-for-profit basis and organise it on the basis of people's needs rather than profits. There is a number of things the Taoiseach could do. What is he going to do and when?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We have already taken measures, which the Deputy has dismissed. We have increased the eligibility threshold for the fuel allowance which will be retrospective to budget day. We have also brought in a tax package that will help those who earn more than those income thresholds and who are working. This will make a contribution towards dealing with the current wave of energy costs. We are looking at further measures to see if we can reduce the impact on household bills. I do not believe in the Deputy's idea regarding the ESB. The ESB has historically been one of our most effective and successful semi-State bodies in respect of developing infrastructure and so on. The Deputy's proposals could actually make things worse over time.

Crucially, as well, regarding investment in retrofitting, which is a major item on the agenda of this Government, that will ultimately provide for a far more sustainable and low-cost energy environment for many homeowners in future. We have already retrofitted a significant number of homes in the Deputy's constituency, as he will know, and we can see at first hand the impact that has on energy bills, for people on lower incomes in particular. That aspect should be acknowledged.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Independent)
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I draw the Taoiseach's attention to a serious issue faced by many new parents since the cyberattack on the HSE in May and in the context of the ongoing challenges of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Since May, parents of newborn babies have been having extreme difficulties in registering their births. In many circumstances, they have been unable to register a birth at all, and that means those parents are being denied the opportunity even to apply for such services as GP-visit cards, passports, baptism certificates and child benefits. In addition, these parents are unable to include a newborn baby on any housing application, which is vital to those relying on housing assistance payment, HAP, support to pay their rent. This situation also means that a housing application cannot be upgraded to take into account the new accommodation needed for a household.

The Taoiseach will be aware that a family with one child is entitled to apply for a home with two bedrooms, while those with two children can apply for accommodation with three bedrooms. What is happening now, however, is that people on the housing lists are waiting between four and six months to get registered and to get birth certificates. In the meantime, if such families were to accept an offer of a two-bedroom house, that would mean they would end up on a transfer list and be waiting for another six or seven years, if not longer, to get suitable accommodation. This is unacceptable.

I understand and appreciate we are living in unprecedented times. It has been difficult for everybody. These parents of newborn babies, however, are being punished because of this situation. As I said, they are having extreme difficulty in registering their newborn babies and are unable to register them at all in some cases, which means they are being deprived of vital State services. In my home town of Dundalk, there are no walk-in services, and trying to contact those services is nearly impossible. Every time my office tries to contact the services, we are greeted by a message service advising that we should expect delays, that the services are understaffed and have a high workload. I call on the Taoiseach to rectify this situation. Additional staff are needed to sort out this problem, and I appeal to the Taoiseach to get his Government to put new staff in these posts.

A lady came into my office during the week who had a brand new, five-month-old baby. The child had a rash, so she went to the GP. The first thing the doctor asked her was if she had a birth certificate or personal public service number, PPSN, for the baby, and she said she did not. The GP examined the child and then gave that lady a bill for €60. The Taoiseach might think that is not much money to a parent with a baby, but it is. One thing families will do is to sacrifice everything they have for the health of their child. This is only one example of such circumstances. Acquiring a birth certificate must then be followed by an application for a PPSN, so this situation has a snowball effect. With the stroke of a pen, can the Taoiseach ensure GP-visit cards are issued straight away for newborn babies or help to push the system so these families can secure birth certificates? These are important things for families. The Taoiseach is a family man and, as the saying goes, your health is your wealth. Therefore, I plead with the Taoiseach to please sort out this situation.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know the details of the scheme, but the GP did not have to issue the €60 bill immediately. I just want to make that point. The Deputy's overall point is correct, however. There is a huge challenge in respect of the registration of births and deaths and getting certificates. My understanding is there is a major problem in the greater Dublin area especially. One third of all births and deaths occur in Dublin and the surrounding area. Some 1,500 births require registration each month in that area.

We are informed by the HSE, and it is the case, that the Dublin office was impacted severely by the cyberattack. Registrations were not possible for five to six weeks during the summer in what was already an extensive and busy service. It has not recovered sufficiently since to clear the backlog of applications for certificates. Dublin HSE civil registration staff are working to clear the backlogs. We are advised by the HSE that additional staff have been allocated to the registration service and staff are working weekends to deal with the backlogs. HSE management has been requested to give priority to clearing the registration backlogs. It has also been requested to make use of resources in other parts of the registration service to provide support in the coming weeks to ensure delays are minimised. The HSE operates an online certificate ordering service which are all processed by the Dublin registration office.

I fully accept there are huge challenges in this area. We will continue to keep the pressure on in respect of increasing resources to ensure that we can get this backlog dealt with. To be fair to the Department of Social Protection, it will be very flexible and responsive in respect of the issues concerning birth registration, remuneration, etc. Once a child is registered, a PPSN is automatically allocated by the Department of Social Protection. It automatically processes any payments due to parents for child benefits or related payments. For new parents, an application for child benefit is automatically generated and issued to the mother of a child by the Department once a child's birth has been registered. As the Deputy pointed out, that is the critical issue. We do understand the importance of this issue and the prioritisation required in this regard.

During the summer, because of the nature of the cyberattack and given we were dealing with criminal elements that are quite ruthless in how they approach things, I think society in general did not perhaps understand fully the impact of that cyberattack on our systems, especially on the HSE systems. It had a particularly devastating impact on front-line services, including those in hospitals, in acute services and on those services mentioned by the Deputy.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Independent)
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I asked the Taoiseach for a definite timeline. To be honest, most of the people who come into my office are women with children. They are looking for help. I became a grandfather recently again and it is a fantastic and joyous time. However, these people coming to me are struggling and want help. They need medical attention, a GP-visit card and the children's allowance. These people are looking for help, but they can get nothing done until they get registered. Then, when they have that done, they must look for a PPSN. There always seems to be some kind of obstacle in these people's way. I am asking the Taoiseach, given the way the situation is now, can the HSE or some other body not issue some kind of paperwork that will enable a child to be covered straight away, as soon as it is born, and to have access to a free doctor?

The Taoiseach said that GP should not have charged €60. Is he telling me now, that if I come in to him tomorrow morning and I give him that receipt for €60, he will give me the €60 back so I can give that parent the €60? The detail has to be down in black and white. You have to tell the hospitals or the doctors exactly what is happening. It is not fair on the young girl I mentioned. I think the young girl thought the child had meningitis. When you see for the first time a child with a rash, the first thing that comes into your mind is that it is meningitis. The second thing that happens is the parent goes to the doctor with the child, and the next thing is the doctor asks for €60. Maybe the doctor is entitled to ask for €60, but a simple solution could be achieved with a stroke of a pen. Is there no way that when a child is born in this country, or any country, he or she gets a GP-visit card straight away?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This relates to the registration issue. We are living in extraordinary times. We are in the middle of a global pandemic and we have had a cybersecurity attack on top of that, which has damaged systems. All round, people need to adopt some degree of flexibility and practicality as well. That is the point I made. Many people will know those coming into them in surgeries, etc. A small bit of practicality will allow these issues to be dealt with. The more fundamental point, however, is that adequate resources should be provided to get this backlog cleared. That is the most effective way in respect of ensuring we have a modern, efficient and timely system of birth registration that meets the needs of families and mothers.

I fully get the points the Deputy is making in this regard. I am not sure that creating an alternative system to the existing one would be the best use of resources. We should concentrate on getting rid of the backlog and getting up to date in issuing these certificates. I congratulate the Deputy on becoming a grandfather again.

Peter Fitzpatrick (Louth, Independent)
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For the third time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is great hope for Louth in the future, in all sports, I have no doubt, if there are more Fitzpatricks coming on the scene.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will conclude Leaders' Questions on that very positive note.