Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

95. To ask the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth if he has prioritised the reduction of parents' childcare fees as part of his Department’s budget 2022 proposals; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [48267/21]

Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

My question, which follows on from the motion my party tabled the other night, is in respect of fees for childcare and early years education. I ask the Minister to comment on his Department's priorities for the upcoming budget and if they include the reduction of the fees paid by parents.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am very conscious of the childcare costs experienced by parents and I have been fully determined to address this issue since I became Minister.

In the context of this year’s budget, I have stated publicly that early learning and childcare is a key priority for me. In particular, I have indicated that I will be seeking additional investment to ensure providers can operate sustainably; their employees can benefit from improved pay and conditions; there is improved accessibility for children; and, as the Deputy said, there is improved affordability for parents.

Early learning and childcare is a public good and brings benefits to society as a whole. The importance of these services has become all the more evident during the pandemic we have just gone through. We need additional public investment in order to fully realise the ambitions we have for this sector. With this in mind, the programme for Government undertakes to fulfilling the commitment in First 5. That will include an investment target of €1 billion in childcare by 2028.

I am pleased that an expert group has been working with my Department to help guide future decisions about public investment in early learning and childcare. This group is comprised of national and international experts who have significant experience in the area of early learning and childcare, the systems it operates and its funding. An independently chaired group, it has undertaken an in-depth programme of research and analysis and engaged in an extensive and detailed stakeholder consultation. The group has commissioned a series of reports examining various issues, in particular international comparisons, approaches to reducing cost to parents and mechanisms to control fees internationally. The report of the expert group is being drafted and is on track to be submitted to me in November. I have met the chair of the group and I have been briefed on its progress. This has very much informed my Department’s bid in the context of this year’s budget Estimates.

I will deal with a number of closely-related questions on childcare costs and investment this morning and I hope to have an opportunity to expand further on these issues. I obviously cannot give details of the budget at this stage but I know this is an issue about which the Deputy and other Deputies are concerned.

Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Minister for his reply. I welcome his statement that childcare is a priority and that he regards it as a public good because that is the model we need to adopt for our childcare and early years sector. It needs to be seen for what it is, namely, an excellent public service on which everybody relies and that ultimately benefits children. That has to be at the heart of everything we do.

As the Minister is aware, we have some of the highest fees in the world. In my constituency of Carlow-Kilkenny, which is largely rural like many other deserving areas, people can pay in the region of €650 per month for one child. I know some people in Dublin will probably think that does not sound too bad but the area should be borne in mind and the additional cost for those with a second child. Some people are deciding exactly when they will have children based on childcare costs. It is crazy that we are in that situation in this day and age. I take this opportunity in advance of the budget to ask again that the budget include something for this sector.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is entirely correct that investment in early learning and childcare is a public good. In recognition of that, very substantial investment has been undertaken by the Government to support the sector during the Covid-19 period, including through payments of €34 million per month under the employment wage subsidy scheme, EWSS. Every month, this money is invested in childcare services across the country.

We have also recognised wider issues, including the very low rates of pay that staff receive. For this reason, we introduced a joint labour committee, JLC, as an important first step in addressing that issue.

The Deputy rightly raised the issue of the impact of fees on families who are struggling. It is important to see the issues of affordability, sustainability for services, pay and quality as being linked. We have to look at them together and in whatever proposals I bring forward, I will try to link all these issues, and the overarching issue of quality for children, because they are linked and we cannot deal with one without dealing with the others.

Kathleen Funchion (Carlow-Kilkenny, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I agree that these issues are linked. I consistently make the argument that fees are an issue for parents, wages are an issue for those working in the sector and sustainability is an issue for providers. In fairness, the vast majority of providers started out as small businesses run mainly by women from home. All of a sudden, the whole system has gone insane in terms of paperwork and regulations. No one has an issue with regulation, particularly in respect of children, but a common sense approach is needed. As I repeatedly point out in this House, such an approach is lacking.

One of my other questions is on those working in the sector, early years educators, so I will not discuss that aspect now. However, these issues are linked, which is why they need to be addressed together.

While I recognise the Minister's point about what is in the programme for Government, the Government has had one budget and its second budget is approaching. We need to start seeing that investment next week.

Roderic O'Gorman (Dublin West, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy correctly identified the significant role of providers, many of which are small businesses run by individuals. As the Deputy stated, they are primarily led by women with a passion for providing education and care for the children and babies in their care.

While the NCS is a very good system, it has its flaws, as we discussed in the context of our debate earlier this week. We have seen in the past that where additional investment has been put into it in order to support parents by reducing fees, it has often been subsequently wiped out in the form of fee increases. In many cases, those fee increases are understandable in the context of an individual service struggling with expensive bills it has to pay or with wages it is seeking to pay its staff. Looking at all these matters in the round is important. It is an issue of investment, which is key, but so too is the additional regulation in respect of that investment.