Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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4. To ask the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if he envisages introducing a mandatory sick pay scheme before the end of the Covid-19 pandemic; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30239/21]

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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Does the Tánaiste envisage introducing a mandatory sick pay scheme before the end of the Covid-19 pandemic? I ask him to make a statement on the matter.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The Government is committed to introducing a statutory sick pay scheme and work is well advanced. We have held a public consultation that received 118 submissions and have had regular consultation with the social partners on it. An interdepartmental group on sick pay was established and an international review of best practice was completed. Legislation is being prepared and will be brought to the Government for approval shortly - hopefully this month.

In introducing this legislation we will be adding to the range of reforms the Government has introduced in recent years to improve social protections, terms and conditions for workers including seven increases in the minimum wage, the introduction of paternity benefit, parental leave benefit, enhanced maternity benefit, a national minimum wage which is now the sixth highest in the developed world and restrictions on zero-hour contracts. Other recent reforms include the extension of social insurance benefits to the self-employed, such as treatment benefit, invalidity pension, jobseeker's benefit and a contributory State pension with no means test.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I looked at some of those 118 submissions to the public consultation in November and December. There seemed to be a high level of resistance from employers to the concept of any kind of real fund. I will give an example of some of the correspondence submitted. One employer stated that the rate of pay should be the current illness benefit and then topped up by the employer if they so wish. Another wrote that there should be an earnings threshold as employers will not want to pay sick leave for part-time, seasonal and temporary employees. A third one commented that having a waiting period makes sense as it will prevent people calling in sick on a whim. I sincerely hope that the Minister is not aiming to split the difference between a real sick pay scheme and these kinds of backward 19th century attitudes. I ask him to assure the House that is what we are talking about here is a mandatory employer sick pay scheme at 100% of wages for all workers, which is what a proper scheme would involve.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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This is not the Soviet Union. This is a democracy and people are allowed to make submissions. The Deputy pointed out that 118 submissions were made, some by employees and some by employers. Some of them were by paid advocates and some of them were by people who were none of those things. They are entitled to make their views known. I do not believe that employers and business people are the enemy here. It is absolutely right that we would listen to their views and not shut them out from policy making. The same applies to unions. I always listen to all sides when it comes to making decisions like this.

This is a Government commitment. I am leading it. We will introduce statutory sick pay this year. The legislation will certainly be done this year with the Deputies' co-operation and will come into effect at the end of the year or no later than early next year. We are looking at international comparisons. For example, Northern Ireland has a statutory scheme paying £90 a week which is totally inadequate in my view. It will need to be much better than that, for example. We need to bear in mind that many businesses are suffering.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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The Tánaiste is quite correct in saying that it is not the Soviet Union and it is a democracy. For workers, it feels like a dictatorship in the workplace. He can ask the childcare workers, 84% of whom do not have do not have an employer who pays in any sick pay, or the meat plant workers, 90% of whom, according to Migrant Rights Centre Ireland, do not have an employer who pays in any sick pay. We do not even know what the position is in the nursing homes.

Some 80% are privately owned and are under no obligation by law to have a sick pay scheme. Their representatives who appeared before the Special Committee on Covid-19 Response would not disclose how many of the homes operated a sick pay scheme. That is more like an economic dictatorship than an economic democracy.

I ask the Tánaiste to note that a mandatory employer sick pay scheme at 100% of wages for all workers is what working people will say is a proper sick pay scheme. I sincerely hope he is not going to try to split the difference between that and the kind of backward attitudes we saw represented in many of those submissions.

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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No matter what we do, the Deputy is going to say it is not enough. He has written the press release already before he has seen what we intend to do. That is his role in politics but it is not a particularly constructive one. My role in politics is actually to get things done. I refer to things like the seven increases in the minimum wage and the restoration of public sector pay. We are moving towards a living wage. We have added any number of additional social benefits in recent years, from paternity benefit to parental leave and others. The next thing I am doing to enhance workers' rights in this country is the introduction of a statutory sick pay scheme. About half of the people in the country have it and the other half do not. That is wrong. Most people in the private sector do not and that is wrong. I am going to change it. I am going to get the balance right because we need to bear in mind that hundreds of thousands of people are out of work and many businesses are struggling. If somebody is off sick, the employer not only has to pay for their replacement but will now also have to pay for their absence. We do not want to arrive at a situation where we go so far, so fast, that people have their hours cut or end up being laid off. The Deputy would be delighted with that because he could then blame the Government and the bosses but that would be totally disingenuous.