Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing us raise this matter in the Topical Issue debate. The right to worship is an issue of tremendous sensitivity and importance to tens of thousands of people. We have mixed messages coming from the Cabinet. The Garda press office cannot say which or whether. The Minister for Health, Deputy Stephen Donnelly, informed the House that no priest would be summoned or fined. The opposite has happened. I hope the Government will take a leaf from Scotland's book. This weeks, the Supreme Courts of Scotland stood down a similar measure stating it was a breach of rights under European law. We have always been great Europeans in this country as is our Government. We should observe that decision because if the measure in Scotland breaches the rights of people in Scotland, it also breaches our rights. I appeal to the Cabinet to address this issue, especially for Holy Week and ceremonies. Funerals cannot be restricted to ten people in cases of big families. This limit is causing great difficulties for priests, undertakers and everybody else. This Cabinet will go down in history as the most anti-Christian Cabinet since we got our freedom back, thanks to our gallant leaders in Tipperary and elsewhere who fought for our independence. To think now that people are bring persecuted for going to Mass or attending public worship.

A parish priest contacted me today to say he saw a note on a window indicating that nine people could go into a chipper or takeaway, yet there is nobody inside a church. That is shameful and pitiful. I hope I get a good response.

Carol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an gCeann Comhairle. I add my voice to this call. It is fundamentally wrong to deny people in Ireland the right to attend Mass, a service or public worship, depending on their religion. This Government needs to be fair with people and show some compassion. People are finding the pandemic very tough and challenging and this is a very dark time for many. Why not give them the solace of attending their churches with the comfort and support that people get from that? I commend Canon White, the Catholic priest who took the case in Scotland where worship was found to be legal. It appears the State here does not know whether public worship is legal or illegal. That shows us straightaway that it is on shaky ground and very unsure of itself. The Garda press office was unable to confirm whether public worship is a relevant event under the appropriate legislation. We are in a very serious situation. It was wrong to ban public worship and unfair on people and I am asking the Government to show some compassion, particularly as Holy Week approaches.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for giving us the opportunity to speak on this Topical Issue matter. Next week is one of great importance in the church calendar as it is Holy Week with its associated celebrations. It is upsetting for people to think they cannot go into their churches in a very careful manner. When they were allowed to open, the churches were safe. Large number of volunteers and members of the clergy made serious efforts to ensure people could attend in safe numbers. I guarantee that nobody contracted Covid-19 inside a church. A funny thing about this country is that schools are allowed to open but churches are not. I got a picture last week showing an aeroplane full of people arriving in Ireland and an image of an empty church alongside it.

Only ten people are allowed to attend a funeral. This is totally wrong. We know we are in a pandemic. This is a very difficult time for people, particularly when people pass away. We are one of three countries in the world that has kept church doors closed. It is a shameful act and it is time for the Government to step back and not to be so anti-church at this time. Easter week is a time for people to celebrate with the Lord. I would appreciate if the Government took our concerns and those of the people into account here.

Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing this Topical Issue debate. Is this Government anti-religion? I am entitled to have my religion, just as everybody else is entitled to their religion. We are entitled to worship. This Government does not know whether it is legal to allow us to worship. We are the only country in Europe in this position. A case was taken in Scotland, yet the legal team in this State could not answer a question today as to whether this is warranted. More than 130 were in this room today voting on legislation and Bills. There are churches in this country bigger than this facility, yet the Government only allows ten people into them. At funerals, when people are at their most vulnerable as their loved ones are buried, only ten people may be present. That is very difficult. I am from a family of 11. Who would I have to leave at home, God forbid, if something was to happen in our house? I have a family of six myself. The Government must allow people to worship as we always did and no longer be the only European country that does not stand up. Let Ireland stand up. The people of Ireland are now standing up and it is about time the Government answered them.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputies Mattie McGrath, Nolan, Michael Collins and O'Donoghue for raising this important matter. This is not the first time I have responded to the Deputies on this particular issue, which we also discussed it a number of weeks ago.

As the Deputies are aware, the current public health restrictions at level 5 will remain in place until 5 April 2021, when a further review will be conducted. This decision took account of a variety of factors, including the views of the National Public Health Emergency Team, NPHET, on the current epidemiology of Covid-19 and the need to take decisive action.

The Government remains united in its resolve to tackle the spread of Covid-19. The disease prevention and control strategy we have adopted seeks to prevent the virus spreading among our population to the greatest extent possible. Based on the current epidemiological situation and the public health restrictions that are in place, it will be necessary to celebrate Easter online at home this year. This is for the protection of our friends, families and our wider communities.

The basic public health advice and regulatory measures aimed at blocking the transmission of Covid-19 from person to person remain vital. From the beginning of the pandemic, we have emphasised the many simple measures that can be taken to do this. They include keeping our distance, washing our hands, wearing a face covering, where required, and avoiding crowds.

The Covid-19 resilience and recovery plan continues to provide an appropriate mechanism to guide decision-making, and it will continue to be supplemented by more detailed sectoral guidance on measures that apply at each level of the framework. We continue to see good progress but this needs to be sustained.

Speaking on a personal basis, I assure the Deputies that I am extremely conscious of the burdens that have been placed on all members of society as a result of the restrictions that have been imposed. Many people have been unable to live their lives in the way they normally would or participate in the usual rhythms of their communities. As Deputy Nolan said, for many people, being able to go to their local church during the season of Lent, Holy Week and Easter and attend mass with their family and friends would be a major source of comfort and solace at a very difficult time for our country and, indeed, the world. Unfortunately, as Members now know, the environment within which Covid-19 spreads most easily is indoors where a group of people are gathered. At this moment in time, when we are doing our utmost to break the transmission cycle of the virus, this means we must, regrettably, make every effort to reduce such gatherings.

I acknowledge the work the Catholic Church and other faiths have done to put in place comprehensive guidelines to protect their communities, in compliance with HSE public health advice. I hope we will be able to move back from level 5 in the near future. Consistent with level 5 restrictions, however, religious services have moved online at this time. Places of worship are open for private prayer and I remind Deputy Collins that they are not closed. There are exceptions for funerals, at which ten mourners may be in attendance, and weddings, at which six guests may attend. Importantly, under the current public health regulations, ministers of religion are also permitted to travel to perform a service online, minister to the sick and conduct a funeral or wedding ceremony.

Since March 2020 we have learned to live in a world with this virus. We succeeded in doing this thanks to the collective efforts of all of us to adhere to the guidelines, and we can do so again. I will take on board everything said this evening by the four Deputies and bring it back to the Minister, Deputy Donnelly.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I am shocked and disappointed with the reply that the churches will not be open for Easter. The Minister, Deputy Donnelly, said in the House that penal provisions were not affecting the priests. Fr. Hughes proved otherwise. Is it that we are flouting European law and the judge in Scotland was wrong? He accepted the case and said that European rights in Scotland were being denied. We can do what we like in Europe. Shame, shame, shame on the Government. It is so sad that this could happen in such a way. That was such a response to read out this evening. It is unchristian and uncaring. It is shocking to think that people of all faiths would be denied services at Easter. It is beyond belief. I salute Declan Ganley. The Government lawyers could not answer his case, and they got two weeks to do so. How clever of the judge to put it back for two weeks until after Easter. Imagine in a court case they could not answer questions as to whether it was legal. The Garda Commissioner cannot answer and neither can the press officer. The Minister of State came in this evening and spouted out that diatribe to us. It is shocking.

Carol Nolan (Laois-Offaly, Independent)
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I am very disappointed. Our 1916 Proclamation refers to religious and civil liberty. Where is this country going? This is a basic human right. I hope we will proved right as they were in Scotland. People of faith are being denied access to churches and to mass and services. It is about attending the sacraments. It is not just about people going into a church on their own and praying. We have to remember the churches handled everything very well. Every safety measure was put in place. There was no evidence of any clusters. Why ban public worship? It is very unfair and cruel. It needs to be urgently reviewed because it involves human rights. It is unnecessary to do such a thing and deny people access to mass and religious services, particularly at a time such as this during a pandemic. We know our churches are huge buildings that are well ventilated. Today in this very hall we have full attendance of Deputies. As was pointed out by my colleague, Deputy O'Donoghue, we have churches that are the size of this venue in terms of square metres but people of faith are being denied and cruelly treated.

Michael Collins (Cork South West, Independent)
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I am very disappointed with the response of the Minister of State. This was an opportunity for the Government to show it respected people for the careful manner in which churches were opened. Clergy and volunteers had carried it out but unfortunately the Government has turned its back on them once again. It is incredible to say the least. As I said earlier, and the Minister of State did not address this in her speech, I have no issue with schools being open because it is important that they are but if schools can be reopen and classrooms can be filled why does a church remain closed?

How is it that people can fly into this country and that planes are full? I do not know how many thousands came into Dublin recently. There are planes full of people. The Government has no issue whatsoever with this but it shuts the doors of the churches and will not let people attend mass or services. The clergy want to go ahead with services and people want to attend services but the Government has refused this. As I said, I have great sympathy for people who have lost loved ones and their heartache. It is hard enough to lose loved ones but to think most of the family have to stay at home or stand outside in the rain while there is a service going on in a church that might take between 500 and 700 people is an outrageous and a completely incorrect decision. It is anti-church.

Richard O'Donoghue (Limerick County, Independent)
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I would hate to pull the Minister of State on one of her own comments. She said the churches are open online. I have spoken to people from Granagh, Ballingarry, Croom and Patrickswell, and I can keep naming places, who have told me their Internet service breaks down every day because of the failure of the roll-out of broadband. The churches are not open online. They are not there. Last week, a funeral was interrupted four or five times. People were trying to listen to a mass for a loved one but they could not do it. There has been full attendance here today. The distance is 2 m. Work out the square metres and open up our churches and let them be run faithfully as they were. There were no incidents in a church. There are ten in a church for a funeral and six for a wedding. For God's sake, it does not make sense. The Minister of State contradicted herself. The Internet is not there for people in rural areas. The numbers of people who go to mass in small rural communities are small anyway. There might only be 20 or 25 people.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Yet again, I thank the Deputies for raising this matter this evening. I do not want to stand here and not show empathy or understanding to what the Deputies have raised. I understand absolutely about the Internet. This is what some people in my constituency also experience. In all fairness, the Deputies' points are very well made. It is not that we are turning our back on the church. What has happened is that we have decided to put public health first. This is the most Christian thing we could possibly do. This is what the Government has done. It has put public health first for the betterment of everybody. There is dialogue and the Taoiseach has met the heads of the church and I hope this conversation continues with regard to when we come out of level 5. The Deputies are right that the churches conducted themselves in a really responsible way. This is important and it needs to be acknowledged. They had plenty of support and ushers to ensure distance was kept and to ensure people could be protected as best they could. Unfortunately, we have found ourselves where we are. The Deputies have put forward their case and I will bring it to the Minister, Deputy Donnelly. At this moment in time, the Government has put public health for the entire community throughout the island first.