Dáil debates

Wednesday, 10 March 2021

Ceisteanna - Questions

Taoiseach's Meetings and Engagements

1:55 pm

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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1. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent phone call with the UK Prime Minister. [43180/20]

Photo of Neale RichmondNeale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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2. To ask the Taoiseach the engagement he has had with the UK Prime Minister since the UK has left the Brexit transition period. [1325/21]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I last spoke with Prime Minister Johnson on Tuesday, 2 March. We discussed plans for a joint bid for World Cup 2030, bringing together the five football associations from Ireland, Northern Ireland, England, Scotland and Wales.

We also discussed the latest situation on the Northern Ireland protocol and during our conversation the Prime Minister spoke of concerns he had around the availability of various food products and plants in Northern Ireland. I stressed to the Prime Minister the importance of working within the established structures to explore potential solutions to these problems and the need to reduce tensions more generally regarding the implementation of the protocol.

We also discussed vaccines and the roll-out of same. He volunteered clearly that he would have to vaccinate all of his people first before he would be in a position to help other countries including Ireland and Ireland would be high up in his thoughts. He assured me in that respect but they have some distance to go in terms of their vaccination programme. We discussed that issue and he was clear on that.

I also spoke with Prime Minister Johnson on 29 January, following the European Commission's signalling of its intention to trigger Article 16. I was also in contact with the Prime Minister on Christmas Eve to acknowledge the agreement reached between the United Kingdom and the European Union at that time.

We agreed it was in everyone's interest that a deal had been concluded.

While there have been challenges to implementing some aspects of the protocol, I remain firmly of the view that the Brexit agreement reached is very important for Ireland. Unilateral approaches to the protocol or its implementation are not acceptable. The most optimal way of dealing with this is through the mechanisms that have been provided for in the agreement.

2:05 pm

Photo of Alan KellyAlan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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I thank the Taoiseach for that. It is somewhat shocking that he had a call with the UK Prime Minister on 2 March regarding the World Cup bid, which we support, and that the Prime Minister did not raise with him in any way, shape or form the proposed plan to breach the terms of the protocol. Did the Taoiseach have any indication? How did it make him feel that the Prime Minister subsequently behaved in this way? Had the Taoiseach any inkling from the conversation that this was going to happen? It seems pretty shocking behaviour, and not very collegiate, that the Prime Minister would act in such a way so shortly after such a call. I presume the Taoiseach has had other conversations with the Prime Minister and that he will continue such conversations with him.

I understand what the Taoiseach said regarding the vaccine supply. We have a real issue here, however, in that 40% of people in Northern Ireland have had their first dose. Northern Ireland is due to receive an extremely large delivery of the AstraZeneca vaccines this week. It has, therefore, got its schedule right. We are going to have a situation whereby a large number of people in Northern Ireland are going to be vaccinated and the position in the South will be the opposite. This will create real issues. Will the Taoiseach have discussions with the First Minister, the deputy First Minister and Boris Johnson in respect of this matter? Britain is going have a huge volume of excess vaccines. Can we even ask whether, because of this unique situation, Britain may be in a position in six weeks or two months to help us out and provide the AstraZeneca vaccine? Hopefully, the national immunisation advisory committee will have approved it for further use here beyond what has already been approved. Will the Taoiseach please do that on behalf of the Irish people?

Photo of Neale RichmondNeale Richmond (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I am very grateful to the Taoiseach for that comprehensive update. While it is just over a week since the Taoiseach's last telephone call with the British Prime Minister, I think we all agree that perhaps it is time for another call. The events of recent days, to which Deputy Kelly alluded, are extremely worrying. While many of us in this House have consistently said that Ireland will be the UK's best friend within the EU, the UK is certainly making it very difficult for us, particularly when it comes to the fragility of maintaining the settled status of Northern Ireland and the Northern Irish protocol.

Anyone watching the questions in Westminster today will have been taken by the very brusque manner of the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland when talking about how its action had to be taken and that it was somehow forced into taking that action by the EU. This is all being tied up, quite honestly, with a very unedifying spat over vaccines between the EU and UK. The UK is trying to summon the EU ambassador to London but, of course, it has not provided the relevant individual with any diplomatic credentials, although the chargé d’affairesis a noted and, indeed, very brilliant diplomat.

When does the Taoiseach next intend to speak with the Prime Minister? Does he intend to put Ireland’s very serious concerns with the British Government's now second attempt to break international law at the forefront of that conversation? We are dealing with many issues on the Brexit horizon. Our own grace periods are due to conclude at the end of this month. Crucially, this will not be the first, last or only time that issues will remain in the post-Brexit era.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Is it not pretty embarrassing that Boris Johnson's Government has managed to do a better job of rolling out the vaccination programme than our Government? This is the Prime Minister who made an absolute hames of the initial response to the pandemic and who, to put it mildly, has shown incompetence at many levels during this crisis. However, Boris Johnson's Government is streets ahead of us in terms of securing the vaccine and rolling it out. Does the Taoiseach have an explanation as to how we could get it so wrong and even Boris Johnson could get it so right? Serious questions need to be asked. As difficult as I suspect it might be to do so, did the Taoiseach obtain any insights from Boris Johnson on the telephone as to how the British Government got it so right and we got it so wrong and why our vaccination programme is in serious trouble and so far behind the UK? This has potentially serious consequences in terms of there being an all-Ireland epidemiological unit, with high levels of vaccination in the North and pitifully low levels here, with all the possibilities that has of encouraging variants and so on, which could undermine everybody's efforts. In all seriousness, I would like an explanation. Does the Taoiseach have an explanation as to the incredible contrast between what we have done here on vaccination and what Boris Johnson has managed to do?

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to raise two issues. First, I share the concerns that have been voiced here around the slowness of the vaccination programme. It is absolutely imperative we have those conversations, not just with London and the British system, but that we explore all avenues in respect of supply. I believe the issues around delivery of vaccines also need to be straightened out. I raised with the Taoiseach previously the issue of family carers and the fact they have not been afforded any level of priority. I remind him of that issue and ask him again to ensure that family carers will be recognised and given their rightful place in the order of priority relating to vaccination.

Second, I put it to the Taoiseach that last month we had statements on the New Decade, New Approach agreement. We made specific reference to the Stormont House Agreement and reflected again on the importance of dealing with the past and with legacy and on the fact the British Government has failed to honour its commitments in that regard. In fact, it has threatened to bin the Stormont House Agreement and walk away from the very mechanisms we require to deal with the legacy of the conflict. Did the Taoiseach raise the Stormont House Agreement with the Prime Minister?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, we agreed during our telephone conversation that we will have a more substantive meeting in the coming period in order to look more fundamentally at the British-Irish relationship post Brexit, which is important. My sense is that the politics being played in the United Kingdom are not constructive in the context of the European Union. The issue relating to the protocol in terms of the dates could have been resolved within the joint committee. Broader issues also fall for consideration in terms of the refinement of the protocol, if that is possible. What has happened here is that the British decision has been counterproductive to any response from the European Union, which has no alternative but to take and invoke legal action in terms of the breach that has now occurred. We have made it clear to the United Kingdom on an ongoing basis - I have also made it clear to the Prime Minister - that unilateral action of this kind does not advance or progress these issues but actually retards them and is regressive.

One gets the sense, however, that there is sometimes an ongoing narrative and polemic around the UK-EU relationship. That is not good. It may suit domestic politics but it is not good in terms of a more sustainable long-term constructive relationship between the European Union and United Kingdom. To me, that is of more fundamental concern than the specific breach we are discussing and this ongoing approach towards the European Union. I read a report in The New York Timesthis morning which states the EU could have exported up to 8 million vaccines manufactured in Europe to the UK in terms of open borders. The protestations do not, therefore, stand up in terms of the EU approach to the United Kingdom in respect of vaccines.

To respond to the points made by Deputy Boyd Barrett, the first decision the United Kingdom made was not to use the normal authorisation process in validating the vaccine. In other words, we waited four weeks or so for the European Medicines Agency, EMA, to authorise the various vaccines. The UK did not do that. It authorised its vaccines under an emergency provision. This would normally not be done for vaccines because they are being injected into healthy people. People can weigh that up. The clinical advice was that was not something we should do and that in terms of public safety around vaccines and protecting the public, we should go through the authorisation process. That gave a four-week minimum start to the British vaccination programme.

The second issue was the one-dose approach. Opinion is still divided on this, particularly around variants. Recently, Dr. Anthony Fauci in the United States, who has regular engagement with his UK counterparts, said there is no definitive science on this. He said, for example, he would not approve a one-dose strategy. He and others believe that it can create a vulnerability around the subsequent introduction and spread of variants.

We have decided to stick to the data as presented by the companies. The national immunisation advisory committee advises us clinically on how to dispense the vaccines, particularly in terms of dosage and interval periods. It reviews its advice in the context of data that emerge about the efficacy of the vaccines.

With the Irish vaccine programme, 95% of what we get, we give out within a week. That is not a vaccine programme in trouble. There is a broader global supply issue. As I said earlier, the big three vaccine producers are China, Europe and the United States. They will remain the key vaccine producers and manufacturers right through and beyond the summer.

We have succeeded in this country in vaccinating those most vulnerable to disease, severe illness and death. That is a significant achievement in itself and it should be acknowledged. We have vaccinated residents and staff of nursing homes, front-line healthcare workers and the over-85s, and we are now progressively vaccinating the over-80s and the cohort with underlying health conditions. The whole strategy is to try to get the vaccines to those who are most vulnerable. That gives them protection and broader society greater opportunities and options in how we conduct our lives once we have that done. We are on target to do that. The HSE revised the figures yesterday from 1.2 million to 1.1 million vaccines. We got notification this morning of an increase in the number of Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines we will get. The EU is scouring Europe to see if we can create additional manufacturing capacity for the production of vaccines. The relationship between the US and Europe is also important in this regard in terms of the avoidance of protectionism around vaccines. Europe has played this straight up to now in facilitating other countries in having contracts that they freely entered into with the manufacturing companies met.

I take the points made by Deputies Alan Kelly and Boyd Barrett on Northern Ireland. I welcome the fact that Northern Ireland is doing well in its vaccination programme. It is good for the island. The more people we have vaccinated on the island, the better. In terms of alignment subsequently, there will be issues. We have to move in accordance with the public health advice we receive. We also have to take on board to the impact of the variants. We are getting hospitalisations and ICU numbers down, as well as case numbers. People's adherence to the guidelines is working and having an appreciable impact on the reduction in case numbers.

On the family carer issue, I outlined the cohorts we have vaccinated. We obviously want to move to the next cohorts. Essentially, the principle will always be those who are most vulnerable. We accept fully the case for family carers. The matter is under constant review by NIAC.