Dáil debates

Wednesday, 9 December 2020

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Northern Ireland

2:25 pm

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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The violence in Northern Ireland that overshadowed this country for nearly 30 years has left a long and harrowing legacy. That legacy is most acutely felt by the families of the 3,700 people killed in that violence in Northern Ireland. It is apparent that their killing continues to have a significant impact on the politics of Northern Ireland and this country.

It is important that we recognise that the dead of Northern Ireland are frequently referred to for the purpose of making a political point. That is perfectly legitimate. When unionists or loyalists refer to those who were killed by the Provisional IRA, they need to be listened to respectfully and carefully. Similarly, when republicans and nationalists refer to people who were killed by loyalist paramilitaries or the British state, they need to be listened to carefully and respectfully.

However, we need to recognise that there is an objective and purpose in trying to ensure that we can commemorate all 3,700 people who were killed during the Troubles in a way that is free from a political narrative. In many instances, the dead are being invoked for a particular political purpose. There is nothing wrong with that, but legacy issues have become part of the territory upon which political division in Northern Ireland now operates.

When we consider the 3,700 people who were killed during the Troubles, we can all recognise and accept that each of them deserves to be remembered.

When we go further and state why they need to be remembered, we can get into difficulty. Were we to say that each one of them died needlessly, that becomes an issue of political dispute. I believe, therefore, we can all agree that each one of the 3,700 people deserves to be remembered respectfully. We can also agree that collective memory will assist in reconciliation. We can see in Northern Ireland that, unfortunately, reconciliation has not been achieved to the level we would wish.

I tabled this Topical Issue matter because there is a monument to the 3,700 people who were killed in Northern Ireland, namely, a book called Lost Lives: The Stories of the Men, Women and Children who Died as a Result of the Northern Ireland Troubles, which was published for the first time in 1999 as a result of considerable work by five journalists, led by Mr. David McKittrick.

I read an article by Mr. Fintan O'Toole in The Irish Timesat the weekend and it is apparent now that this book may be going out of print. The suggestion put forward by Mr. O'Toole in his article, and it is a suggestion I agree with, is that this State, perhaps together with the Northern Ireland Executive, should seek to purchase the rights to that book. If we managed to purchase the rights to the book, we could make the information in that valuable tome available online to the public. That book is written without judgment, political objectivity or a narrative; it simply records the stories of the men, women and children who were killed during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.

Were the State in a position to purchase the rights to that book, I believe it would achieve something in trying to ensure we have some monument, that the voices of those who died would be recognised and that people could simply look to see who were these men, women and children who died during the violence in Northern Ireland. If, however, we let this pass and this book goes out of print, it is clear that it will be contentious and difficult for us to get any collective agreement between communities in Northern Ireland as to how we can put together one complete memorial for all the people who died. It will become too contentious. That is why I ask the Government to consider purchasing the rights to Lost Lives. It would not cost much money.

2:35 pm

Photo of Colm BrophyColm Brophy (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. Lost Lives, which chronicles all the 3,700 people who were killed in the conflict, is a truly invaluable resource. In documenting each name, life and family, it is a work of both extraordinary scholarship and great empathy and inspires that empathy in all those who read it. Although those lives were tragically cut short, they will always be remembered.

The violence of the Troubles cuts across all sections of society regardless of background, age, gender or religion, inflicting an appalling 30-year toll. While at times deeply sad and unsettling, Lost Livesserves as a powerful reminder of the dark events of our recent history and demonstrates how crucial it is to ensure the successful and sustained operation of all the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement.

The book has also been given a new audience in a renewed lease of life with the production of the documentary by film-makers Mr. Michael Hewitt and Mr. Dermot Lavery. Last year, former Senator Ian Marshall organised a screening of the "Lost Lives" documentary in Leinster House. It is encouraging to note that Members from across all sides of both Houses the Oireachtas were present on that occasion, reflecting the cross-party co-operation approach to the peace process founded on the Good Friday Agreement, which is so important.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs has met families who have lost loved ones in the most appalling of circumstances, bombings and shootings that are dark stains on our history such as the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, the Kingsmill massacre, the Ballymurphy killings, the Birmingham bombings and others. They were attacks for which there could never be justification.

One thing that unifies all families who have lost loved ones in these terrible circumstances, whatever their background or identity, is a wish that no other family should have to suffer as they do. The peace we realised with the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 must be protected and sustained, come what may. The importance of acknowledging, respecting and effectively dealing with the tragic legacy of the past cannot be underestimated. So many families lost loved ones during the Troubles and are entitled to support in finding truth and justice as part of the healing of the wounds of that conflict, and as part of building reconciliation.

The Government also facilitates the remembrance of lives lost during the Troubles through a range of projects and initiatives supported by the reconciliation fund. These include, among many others, the annual day of reflection promoted by the Healing Through Remembering group to facilitate quiet remembrance of the impact of conflict on lives across these islands, and the important work of the conflict archive on the Internet, CAIN, at Ulster University, which provides a comprehensive chronology of the Troubles and a permanent reminder of the tragic events which saw so many lose their lives.

The unforgettable message of Lost Livesand the terrible record of violence, loss and suffering it portrays so movingly is "Never again". The peace we have found through the Good Friday Agreement is the only fitting legacy for each of the lost lives that are documented in this book. It is important that this book, such a vital resource in that process of remembering, is protected and made accessible. While I understand the original publisher is no longer in operation, the Government would be happy to explore how we can be helpful, perhaps through a collaborative effort, in ensuring this hugely valuable work remains available for the future.

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister of State for his considered and measured response. I also welcome the fact the Government is prepared to explore trying to purchase the rights of this book. This would be a beneficial step for this State to take. It is also important that we recognise it is asking much of the two communities in Northern Ireland to organise mutual reconciliation themselves. That is something any community would find extremely difficult to do. That is why it is so important that the Irish Government and, indeed, the British Government and Northern Ireland Executive play a part in this. Sometimes, when people can stand back from an issue a bit, it can be easier to try to look at it objectively to ensure we can try to achieve some fairness.

It is fair to say the book is not contentious. Most issues in Northern Ireland are contentious, particularly, when it comes to remembrance or in terms of legacy issues. This book sets out the detail of all those people who were killed during the Troubles. I agree with the Minister of State when he says the message that comes out of the violence in Northern Ireland can be summed up in two words: "Never again". We never need to ensure that because there is a division between Irish people, we must resort to violence. It is, however, imperative that we remember and recall it. That is why this book achieved so much, and bizarrely, when the book was started I do not believe the authors - the five journalists - had in mind this was going to be some great tome that would assume such reconciliatory significance. They simply wanted to record the people who died for the purpose of journalistic research. To date, however, in my opinion, it is the most effective way and method that exists of commemorating the people who died during the violence in a non-contentious way. I believe all the 3,700 people who died, and their families, deserve justice. We also need to recognise, however, that sometimes justice may not be attainable. What they certainly require, however, is truth. That is why I believe the stories of the lives of each of them who died should be recorded by this State and made available to the public at large.

Photo of Colm BrophyColm Brophy (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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Again, I thank the Deputy for his comments in response.It is important to acknowledge the key point that it is not a controversial book. Lost Livesserves as a powerful reminder that we must continue to work towards deeper reconciliation and that all we do is to heal the wounds we can. That is obviously done through the process of acknowledgement of the most painful parts of our history and that we move forward together. Therefore, what the Deputy has outlined in this Topical Issue is important. Lost Livesreally reminds us of how crucial it is that we do not forget and that we keep working on the path of peace and deeper reconciliation. I thank him again for raising the issue.