Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

34. To ask the Minister for Education and Skills if a high-risk SNA can work from home during the lockdown restrictions if the management team of a school agrees to same. [39977/20]

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am not sure whether the Minister or the Minister of State will reply to this question. I have a specific case in mind, but it applies to the broad issue of school staff and high risk versus very high risk. As I have pointed out previously, very high risk is a very high threshold and many people who are severely immunocompromised with conditions such as leukemia and others are deemed high risk. They are concerned. In some instances, schools want to offer them more flexibility, but they are not permitted to do so at present.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I can take the question if it relates specifically to SNAs. My understanding is that it does.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The same principles apply, so I will take whatever reply the Minister of State has.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is an occupational health service provision specifically for teachers, and that would include SNAs, as essential workers. Those who are at very high risk can take Covid leave, but those who are at high risk should be at work. That is the position. Every school has a lead worker representative whose role is to represent staff. Somebody should not miss work for Covid reasons if he or she is high risk. It is only if the person is at very high risk that he or she should not work.

The person could ask the occupational health service providers, Medmark Occupational Healthcare, to review his or her status if he or she has concerns. Medmark Occupational Healthcare has a process in place for staff who have health concerns, which the Deputy enunciated. There has been comprehensive and intensive engagement with education stakeholders, including school management bodies and staff representatives, to ensure that schools open safely. Each school has a Covid-19 response plan and included in that are practical steps to minimise and prevent the risk of infection. That is the status in that respect.

It is important to stress, as I have stressed to the Deputy on a few occasions, that when we reopened the schools we put aside €14.7 million specifically for SNAs, caretakers and school secretaries so there would be an immediate replacement of those SNAs. Obviously, their role is essential. I thank them for all the work they have done to date in keeping the schools open and, in particular, looking after children with special needs because those children simply cannot function in a school environment without an SNA present. Their work is vital.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I will speak first about the case I have in mind, although anonymously with regard to the brass tacks. This SNA is high risk. I would deem the person to be very high risk in the ordinary meaning of the words, but the person has not met that threshold with Medmark Occupational Healthcare. The person's doctor, principal and the board of management agree that it is not safe for the person to return to school. However, due to the process in place, the person must go in every day and potentially risk the person's health in doing so or the person would have to take the decision to take a leave of absence. The principal was more than happy for the person to be paired with a medically vulnerable student - it would have suited everybody in the equation - to learn from home and for the learning to continue online in the instance of high infection in the community. I believe there is a rigidity in that regard. The overall philosophy regarding where one can attend and where it is safe for one to attend is right, but there is a rigidity in terms of the harder cases. I will return to that in my final contribution, but we need to consider it.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I appreciate the sentiment of what the Deputy said. That is one of the reasons we provided €30 million in the school reopening plan for personal protective equipment, PPE. PPE is critical for the role of the SNA and for the SNA to carry out his or her functions not just adequately but safely. Often the SNA moves from room to room and he or she needs a medical-grade mask when he or she is within 2 m of a child with special needs.

I understand what the Deputy is saying about the rigidity of the process, but, as I said in my initial contribution, the person can ask Medmark Occupational Healthcare to review the person's status. I imagine that Medmark Occupational Healthcare should take into account the views of the board of management and the principal of the school to sustain that status. It may well be the person is very high risk as opposed to high risk and, therefore, is not in a position to work in the normal course of events.

Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire (Cork South Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am glad the Minister of State referred to PPE. It is still my view that all SNAs should be provided with the medical-grade masks mentioned by the Minister of State. For the vast majority of SNAs, the instances in which they will be moving to within 2 m of children or outside it occur very frequently throughout the day. It is the easiest and most sensible thing to do.

The problem with the Medmark Occupational Healthcare process and the appeal, and I understand that very few have been successful on appeal, is that they are related to the same criteria and the same categorisation. Very high risk is a very high threshold. High risk is a broad category ranging from mild asthma to leukemia, liver failure and other similar conditions. The fact that somebody gets a review does not necessarily mean that it takes an overall view of this individual member of staff and says it would probably be better, in the circumstances, if the person was at home. It only refers to whether the person has one of the conditions that qualifies the person as very high risk. Ultimately, it does not change matters.

When Dr. Ronan Glynn was before the Covid committee he told me that regardless of the categorisation by Medmark Occupational Healthcare, each person must be treated as an individual with his or her own specific set of circumstances.

We need a bespoke approach in the minority of cases where the Medmark process proves to be too blunt and people are at the higher end of high risk but do not qualify for very high risk.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I appreciate the sentiment expressed by the Deputy and the fact that he has a particular person in mind in this regard. I stress the fact that, in addition to the Covid-19 response plan, which each school has, schools also have at least one lead worker representative whose role is to represent staff and people in the predicament the Deputy outlines. The role of an SNA in particular is crucial. We have grown the amount of SNAs by 78% since 2011 and one of the things we want to ensure is that every SNA is in a position to look after children with special needs, so it is of particular importance to me that they are adequately protected. Deputy Ó Laoghaire mentioned medical grade masks. Obviously, SNAs should be wearing those or surgical masks where they are within 2 m or a proper visor of suitable quality for a healthcare setting, if it is not practical to wear a mask for any reason. That should protect them from getting infection or infecting somebody else.