Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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28. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection if she has considered the long-term sustainability of services provided by community employment schemes (details supplied). [24342/20]

Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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Community employment is used by organisations across the country to support communities, deliver services and maximise community facilities. Is the Minister's Department committed to reforming the community employment scheme to ensure the long-term sustainability of these services, bearing in mind the people who work in them?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy McAuliffe for raising this matter.

Community employment, CE, is an employment support programme targeted at the long-term unemployed. Prior to the recent Covid-19 emergency the number of long-term unemployed on the live register fell steadily as the economy gradually returned to full employment. While this was a positive development, it meant a reduction in the number of suitable candidates available for onward referral to employment support schemes, including CE.

During the period of the Covid-19 emergency, my Department introduced a series of measures, including contract extensions, for all existing CE participants to maintain CE participant levels.

Since 6 July, my Department has steadily increased its activation activity across all of the employment supports to ensure the increased number of jobseekers in the Covid environment have the necessary access to the full range of opportunities available, including to CE schemes.

Department case officers continue to work closely with CE sponsoring authorities to ensure they receive the necessary referrals for existing vacancies and new vacancies that arise. Those availing of Covid-19-related payment supports will also become eligible to participate on employment support schemes including CE if, unfortunately, they continue to be unemployed for 12 months or more.

I am aware of the positive benefits derived from schemes like CE. Communities benefit from the skills and talents of CE participants who, in addition, are provided with the opportunity to improve existing skills or develop new skills, while performing valuable work in their local communities. I know that Deputies in this House are well aware of the many excellent schemes across the country. Furthermore, many CE schemes provide vital community services across the country, all of which are well embedded in the communities.

As the Deputy will be aware, as part of the July stimulus package, the Government announced 3,000 additional places on State employment schemes, including the CE scheme. This will provide opportunities for existing CE schemes to expand participants' numbers and services provided.

Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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While the service is used to provide much-needed community facilities, the real problem is that the CE scheme is funded by the Minister's Department to provide a training opportunity for people exiting long-term unemployment with the hope they would progress into the job market. I have supervised some of the people involved in these schemes and there is no doubt they benefit greatly from the opportunity. However, those positive stories mask what I believe to be a system with massive governance funding and structural problems. We are all familiar with the issue of the pension payment for CE supervisors, on which I expect the Government to move quickly. I have met local CE supervisors. They are reasonable people who, after a lifetime of service, ask only that the Government honour the Labour Court recommendation to give them, they are mostly women, something which they richly deserve.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I have also met many of the CE scheme supervisors. For several years now, they have sought through their union representatives the allocation of Exchequer funding to implement a 2008 Labour Court recommendation relating to the provision of a pension scheme. CE sponsoring authorities are the legal employers of their CE supervisors, CE assistant supervisors and CE participants and the Department's role continues to be that of a CE funder. However, the issue was examined by a community sector high-level forum chaired by the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. A number of Departments, including my own, were represented on this group, as were the unions and Pobal. Officials from my Department held a series of meetings with CE supervisor union representatives to consider a range of proposals, mindful of the wider environmental and financial implications of any such proposals. Discussions were also undertaken with my Department officials and their counterparts in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and these are ongoing. I will also engage with the Minister, Deputy Michael McGrath, who has also met the CE supervisors.

Paul McAuliffe (Dublin North West, Fianna Fail)
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On a wider point than just the CE pensions, the real problem with the CE schemes is the nature of them being independent limited companies. In many ways, it is a little bit of a corporate governance black hole. The Department is effectively the shadow director, the funder and the real decision maker and CE supervisors are often one-man or one-woman shows. They have little support and the board of directors is often there in name only.

Equally, some schemes are used by large charities to do vital fundraising work. These charities, however, do not provide CE supervisors with the same terms and conditions as their other workers.

Finally, and more crucially, many CE schemes simply provide what I believe to be State services, such as meals on wheels or crèche places in disadvantaged areas. These people are effectively public servant employees using manufactured limited companies to reduce employment costs and the sad thing is, they are providing them at a fraction of the cost that a public or private sector provider would. The least they deserve is the odd pay rise and a decent pension gratuity or pension scheme to which they can contribute.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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As I said, we are engaging with the supervisors and, in fairness, my Department works very closely with them. I am aware there were a number of issues in one scheme in the midlands only a couple of weeks ago and we had direct involvement. We were able to give them the necessary support and information and bring clarification to a number of issues.

We want to continue to work with them because they provide an absolutely vital service. It is not just all about job activation, it is also about social inclusion. They provide a really wonderful service in other areas of society. That is something we need to look at in terms of the overall CE schemes because they are performing a dual purpose at present. I am aware there was a review a number of years ago and good changes have been made in terms of older people who may be allowed to remain longer on these schemes. Having said that, however, it is an opportunity to have another look on how we can improve them. We are all about how we can do things better here.