Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We have a bumper edition of Topical Issues matters, I understand. The first is in the name of Deputy Darren O'Rourke. Is that right?

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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There are three of us: me, Deputy O'Rourke and Deputy Kerrane. We will take one minute each, if the Acting Chairman is agreeable to that, followed by a response from the Minister and a further one minute each for the reply. Is that okay?

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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That is okay.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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I know the Minister is aware of the plight of Aer Lingus workers because I have written to her on the matter, as have my colleagues, but I wish to share with the Minister just some of the stories we are getting. I will not identify anyone. I received an email yesterday stating:

My net pay for a fortnight after deductions this week came to €250. I have a mortgage and bills to pay which I now cannot afford. We've been informed by our local Intreo office that we are entitled to jobseeker's benefit for the days that we are not working. Aer Lingus have refused to sign the paperwork required for this payment.

Here is another one:

Social welfare and Aer Lingus are still maintaining that we are only entitled to short-term working supports while on the EWSS and not the TWSS. Furthermore, Intreo offices are still stating that they have not received clarity from Aer Lingus and their head of social protection on how to process any of the claims.

The Minister yesterday, on radio, said this was a matter between Aer Lingus and its employees. It is not. It is a matter for her. These people are absolutely desperate. They have rent and bills. We have heard some terrible stories. I have shared with the Minister two of them. I have had hundreds of them into my office. Urgent action is needed on this.

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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We need absolute clarity on this this evening. Can the Minister confirm if employees were eligible to apply for applicable jobseeker supports for their days of unemployment, even when Aer Lingus was claiming the temporary wage subsidy scheme, TWSS? The company said it was receiving conflicting messages from Revenue and the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection and says it is for the individual employee to contact his or her local Intreo office. What does the Minister have to say to the workers who could not get their forms filled? Was this wrong, as I suspect it was? Are they due arrears? If so, for what maximum period - for the duration of the TWSS or not?

How do they go about claiming those arrears? The situation relating to the employment wage subsidy scheme, EWSS, is clearer, but will the Minister confirm that all Intreo offices have been advised of the current position, which is that an individual may be in receipt of both?

Claire Kerrane (Roscommon-Galway, Sinn Fein)
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This issue has been ongoing for approximately six months. That is six months of workers not knowing their income from one week to another and struggling from one week to another. These are workers with families and with mortgages or rent to pay. They have been under immense pressure in the past few months. They have been told one thing by their local Intreo offices and another thing at work. Aer Lingus has actively blocked employees at every turn from accessing their social welfare entitlements. These are entitlements in respect of which workers pay PRSI in order that they can access assistance when they need to. That is what social protection is supposed to be about. The actions of Aer Lingus, as we have seen in the correspondence we have received, has been absolutely appalling towards employees in this State. The company needs to be taken to task. The Minister has responsibility and she needs to do this.

When did the Minister begin engagement, if she has done so? If there were talks between Aer Lingus and the Department or the Minister, how did they come about? What was the outcome of those talks?

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this matter. I have also received correspondence from those involved and I acknowledge the huge stress many of the affected workers are under at this time. I have received their emails and read their stories, and I accept that some of them are in an awful situation.

We have committed billions of euro in funding to support people's income since the onset of the pandemic through the pandemic unemployment payment, PUP; the TWSS, and the EWSS, which is new and which took effect from the 1 September. These supports have helped over 1 million people to date. In the context of the issue at Aer Lingus, it is important to outline the position with regard to short-time work. If a person is placed on a shorter working week - for example, if he or she is place on a two-day week as opposed to a five-day week - he or she can claim the short-time work support payment in respect of the days he or she is unemployed, even where the employer is claiming the newly introduced EWSS for days of employment. This means that if a person works two days, the employer pays him or her for two days. For the three days he or she is unemployed, he or she can claim jobseeker's support or the short-time working payment. The normal scheme rules and application processes continue to apply, including completion of the relevant forms by the employer to certify the position. The employer signs a form to certify the number of days the person has worked.

Since the EWSS took effect on 1 September, many thousands of companies have transitioned onto it without any impact on their workers. It is difficult to understand how an organisation the size of Aer Lingus, with a dedicated HR department, could have had problems in interpreting the criteria relating to the EWSS and short-term work, particularly when many small businesses throughout the country have had no such issue. Notwithstanding that fact, my primary concern is for the impacted workers and ensuring that they can access their entitlements. I spoke to my officials about this matter last week and the relevant officials from my Department have engaged directly with Aer Lingus on it since then. Management of the company has today advised that any outstanding documentation required to finalise applications for jobseeker's support will be provided by Aer Lingus to their employees as a matter of urgency. I have asked my officials to prioritise decisions on these applications on receipt of this information and to ensure that claims are put into payment as quickly as possible once it is received. I hope this will happen swiftly in order that this matter will resolved and the workers will be able to access their entitlements.

Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein)
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Yesterday, the Minister stated on radio that "if people are entitled to benefits, they are entitled to them, and I want to make sure that they get them". The performance of Aer Lingus to date will not inspire the workers or give them much confidence that they will get their forms filled. I ask the Minister to issue an instruction to her officials to accept those forms, if they are filled out correctly and if the relevant documentation, with the exception of that from Aer Lingus, is provided. These people are desperate. Receiving €250 for two weeks' work when one has rent and bills to pay and children to feed is not acceptable and is not going to work. Aer Lingus has been dragging its heels and an Teachta O'Rourke has asked the Minister about backdating those claims. Will she confirm that they will be backdated? People have been sending in these forms for months. They have no confidence that the company will fill out the forms. The Minister can intervene with her officials and make sure that those forms are processed as long as people have filled them out and provided as much documentation as can reasonably be expected.

Darren O'Rourke (Meath East, Sinn Fein)
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I did not hear reference to the TWSS. I heard reference to the EWSS and that is what we received previously in responses from the Minister and her Department in written replies to parliamentary questions. I repeat the question: will the Minister confirm if employees are eligible to apply for applicable jobseeker's supports for days of unemployment even when Aer Lingus was claiming the TWSS for that period? The company stated that it received conflicting messages from the Department. Will the Minister confirm that people are eligible and can and will have their applications backdated? I appeal to her to please deal with the TWSS.

Claire Kerrane (Roscommon-Galway, Sinn Fein)
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We all appreciate the process that is in place for these workers but the issue is with the Minister's reference to when the employers signs the forms. That has been the entire issue here: the employer has not been signing the forms and that has left employees in an awful situation. I reiterate that this has been going on for months. The Minister indicated that Department officials have been engaging with Aer Lingus since last week. Is that correct? This has been going on for months and it would seem extraordinary if engagement only began last week.

Will there be further direct engagement by the Minister's office with Aer Lingus, given the way in which they have actively blocked their employees from accessing their entitlements? That is no carry-on for any employer to be engaging in and the matter needs to go beyond officials in the Department pulling the company up on this. As an Teachta O'Rourke stated, we need clarity on the TWSS, specifically in the context of backdating claims.

Heather Humphreys (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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This issue only came to the fore in the past number of weeks. My priority is in getting the issue sorted for the workers so they can claim the supports they are entitled to. In order to do that, the employer needs to provide UP80 forms to certify the number of days that employees have worked. We must have confirmation of the days people are unemployed because otherwise we would be paying money out to everyone. We have to get the details. I confirm that when those forms are received, claims will be backdated to 1 September. Aer Lingus confirmed to my Department today that it will provide those forms to its workers as a matter of urgency. Once the Department receives that information, my officials will prioritise the processing of the applications from Aer Lingus workers. The Deputies will understand and appreciate that we need the forms because we need to have certification of the number of days a person is working before we can make a payment.

I share the frustration of the Deputies as to why that has not happened previously. There are thousands of companies in receipt of the EWSS and, to the best of my knowledge, this issue has not arisen elsewhere. I spoke to the officials last week and they have been engaging with Aer Lingus. My Department has clarified to Aer Lingus on a number of occasions the details that are required.

I hope and expect the management at Aer Lingus to communicate fully with its staff members on this matter and provide them with the necessary documentation. Once that documentation is received by my Department, these applications from workers in Aer Lingus will be prioritised for payment.

Regarding the EWSS, when those forms come in, to be clear, they will be backdated to 1 September and claims will be paid from that date. Turning to TWSS, that was a different scheme to the EWSS, and the key issue in this regard is that it is necessary for a potential claimant to have been unemployed for several days before it is possible to get the short-term working payment.