Dáil debates

Wednesday, 16 September 2020

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Crime Investigation

2:40 pm

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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I apologise as I did not realise this matter was down as coming first in the order. The last time I looked, it was third in the order.

I first express my sympathy and solidarity with Izzy, the activist who was beaten on the head outside Leinster House on Saturday. People have seen the horrific pictures of blood streaming down her face. She was hospitalised and had to receive stitches. Izzy is not only an outstanding anti-oppression activist and one of the founders and a former chief steward of Pride but she also personally stood with the Jobstown defendants and supported the Jobstown Not Guilty campaign in defending the right to protest. I was personally and politically appalled seeing what happened to Izzy.

In a way the nature of the attack on her says something about how those at the core of these protests organised by the far right operate. She was beaten on the head with a bar wrapped in an Irish flag. The violence and hatred of these groups is wrapped in fake patriotism. They are consciously taking up matters that they believe they can bring to a broader section of people - it is masks currently - in order to try to develop far right and fascist politics in this State.

The majority of people who went on those protests on Saturday are not consciously far right, fascist or anything like that. These are people who have real concerns. They are frustrated by the Government advice around Covid-19 and they do not agree on the use of face masks or social distancing. I disagree with such people on those matters, although I agree with their frustration arising from the Government's incoherence. That incoherence comes because public health is not consistently placed first and instead the interests of private profit stands in the way. This happens most clearly in the case of meat plants.

I disagree with these people and their argument for not wearing masks if they are medically able to do so. I disagree with their argument that people do not need to socially distance. We must do all this as part of a collective effort that is not about individual responsibility but rather society as a whole looking to do what it can to protect the vulnerable, including older people, and stop Covid-19.

The Government has the most important job and should shut meat plants when that is required or send people home from school when necessary. It should carry out at least 100,000 tests and tracing processes per week.

Even if I do not convince these protestors on matters like masks and social distancing, I still appeal to them not to be used by the far right, as that is what is happening. They are taking advantage of people's fear in order to recruit. They should look at who is at the core of these protests.

There were two protests with the far right at their core on Saturday. One had Síol na hÉireann at its centre. It is not a registered party or lobby group and it is technically a private and for-profit company. The leader is a man named Niall McConnell, a Catholic nationalist who is anti-choice. He said at a demonstration that we "should not tolerate LGBTQ+ people". He is a close friend of Britain First founder and loyalist, Jim Dowson, and he has links with the British National Party former leader, Nick Griffin, and other far right people across Europe.

The group at the centre of the other protest at Leinster House was the National Party, led by Justin Barrett of Youth Defence notoriety. He is horrifically anti-woman and anti-abortion, as well as anti-same sex marriage. He also has open relations with extreme fascist and far right groups across Europe and has spoken at openly Nazi rallies in Germany.

Photo of James BrowneJames Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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On behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy McEntee, I thank Deputy Murphy for raising the matter today and I pass on her regrets as she cannot be here in person. The Minister is aware of the protest that took place in Dublin on Saturday afternoon, and as the Taoiseach has stated, it is of course the case that people have the right to protest in a democracy. However, it is important to remind ourselves regularly exactly why it is that the range of health regulations and guidelines currently operating have been put in place. They exist to help curb the spread of Covid-19 and keep each of us safe, particularly the most vulnerable people among us.

As well as protecting life, it is essential to keep the virus suppressed to look after our children and keep our schools and businesses open. That is why the Government outlined its plan for Covid-19 resilience and national recovery yesterday. The Minister knows that this is not easy and that people have now spent six months living under circumstances that are very difficult for all of us. She urges all members of the public to act responsibly during this time and to abide by the health regulations that have been put in place.

With regard to Saturday's events, the Minister has been advised by the Garda authorities that the protests were policed by personnel from Garda divisions across the Dublin metropolitan region, supported by two public order units. In view of the size of the protest, Kildare Street was closed off by An Garda and traffic diversions were put in place.

With regard to the alleged assault to which the Deputy refers, the Minister understands that a Garda investigation into this incident is under way. I hope the Deputy will understand that for this reason it would not be appropriate for the Minister or me to comment in any detail on the matter. The Minister would like to emphasise in the strongest terms that violence, confrontation and intimidation have no place in public protests. People can have differing views or opinions, but the degree of aggression displayed by some protestors on Saturday is not acceptable, to put it mildly, and is deeply concerning. The Minister therefore urges all involved to act responsibly and to abide by the public health guidelines and regulations which have been put in place to protect all of us.

2:50 pm

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I thank the Minister. I understand that with the agreement of the House, Deputy Murphy will allow a Sinn Féin colleague 30 seconds to comment.

Photo of Martin KennyMartin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I submitted a similar Topical Issue matter on anti-mask protestors this morning but it was not selected. The truth is that these people are not protestors but agitators. They are Ireland's version of the National Front. What took place on the streets of Dublin last Saturday and on previous occasions is very disturbing. I know Izzy Kamikaze very well. She lives near to me. She is a tremendous, brave person and a wonderful human being who stands up for others. For her to be attacked in that manner is absolutely disgraceful. In politics we must all be able to advocate our own views openly and freely. For these people, who are basically fascists, to behave that way on the streets of Dublin is totally outrageous. We all have a responsibility to stand firmly against it. I thank Deputy Murphy for allowing me to comment.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, RISE)
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I thank Deputy Kenny. I wish to make two quick points. First, any idea that the answer to this is to ban or clamp down on protests is completely wrong. Ms Kamikaze has publicly stated that she will be opposed to any ban on protests. I am also opposed to such a ban because I know that it will be used against progressive protestors in the future. We have to defend civil liberties. This measure would be totally counterproductive. Progressive organisations and political parties, trade unions, NGOs, immigrants' rights groups, LGBTQ+ groups and animal rights groups need to come together and build a broad, united front against the growth of fascist and far-right ideas. These people are getting organised, and if they get a foothold in Irish society, the consequences will be quite horrific for immigrants, Muslims, asylum seekers, socialists, trade unionists and anyone who stands against the kind of society they want. We need to mobilise people in a safe, socially distant way to stand against these ideas.

Part of opposing the growth of the far right is giving people a true narrative. Many of these people oppose the Government and I think they are right to oppose the Government. They have been fed the idea that the Government is controlled by George Soros or a Covid-19 conspiracy. This is nonsense. We need to tell people the truth. The Government is influenced by the likes of Mr. Larry Goodman and Mr. Denis O'Brien. That is who holds power in this society. The reason we have a housing crisis is not because of migrants but because the Government allows the interests of landlords and developers to reign. We must build a mass left party in this country which sets out a vision of how society can be different and is therefore able to capture people's real anger and alienation and point it in a progressive direction that will lead us out of the crisis we face.

Photo of James BrowneJames Browne (Wexford, Fianna Fail)
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I thank both Deputies for their contributions. I thank Deputy Murphy for raising this very important matter and I wish to convey the Minister's regrets that she cannot be here to answer in person. It is important to note that the vast majority of people continue to comply with public health guidelines and regulations. The Minister is confident that this compliance will continue. We are only too aware that we can only combat the spread of Covid-19 by continuing to make every effort together. As the Deputy will be aware, An Garda Síochána has implemented a careful and graduated policing response based on a strong tradition of policing by consent. Gardaí engage, explain and encourage members of the public to comply. Only as a last resort do they use their powers of enforcement under the health regulations.

The Deputy will appreciate that it would not be appropriate for me or for the Minister to make any further comment on this incident. An Garda is investigating this incident, and the Minister is satisfied that the appropriate steps will be taken to investigate the matter to its conclusion.