Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for coming into the Chamber to take this Topical Issue matter.

As the Minister is aware, there are two types of people who benefit from bus transport. There are those who are determined to be eligible and those determined not to be eligible and who receive a concessionary ticket. As restrictions have been introduced, a squeeze has come onto people with concessionary tickets. From correspondence I have received into my office, much of which I have relayed to the Minister’s Department, it appears that any and every excuse is being used not to grant people tickets or to determine that they are eligible.

In one example, I refer to a family that lives in Broadford, which if one looks at a map is more or less equidistant between Killaloe and Tulla. There are schools in Killaloe, and Tulla and indeed in Scariff, and this family is more or less equidistant between the three. In this particular family of seven members, four of the children went to Tulla with no problem whatsoever, leaving three children. Of the three children last year, two of whom were told that they were eligible to get a ticket to Tulla and one was told that the person was not eligible but could have a concessionary ticket. The child did not challenge this and got onto the bus and this child and siblings went off to school to Tulla. This year the family have been told that none of the children are eligible and that they all must get concessionary tickets. The reason they have been told this is that Tulla is 16 km away and Killaloe is 18 km away by the normal road that the bus takes. There is also however what is called or considered a gap road which is a very beautiful road, and if the Minister ever wants to come mountain biking in Clare I would highly recommend this as it has fantastic views. One would want to have very good control of one’s bike and to do this in summer because the road is exceptionally steep. Nobody and no school bus would drive that road. In fact there are parts of the winter when nobody can drive this road. I spoke to the council engineer, who generally does not exaggerate, and he told me this morning that when trees - because this road runs through forestry - fall on this road, the council tries to clear it as fast as possible. It is prone to flash flooding because it is very steep and is on the side of a mountain and the highest point in County Clare, which is the top of the Sliabh Bearnach mountains. When the road floods, as it does throughout the winter, the council tries to clear it as soon as possible. That road, which is simply not drivable by a school bus or indeed by a car for much of the winter, where one would need a 4x4 vehicle at best to traverse it, is the basis upon which Bus Éireann has said that these pupils are not eligible to go to Tulla but must go to Killaloe. This simply does not make sense. It may be in accordance with the terms and conditions from Bus Éireann which I have here, which state how distant eligibility is determined:

Distance eligibility is determined by Bus Éireann by measuring the shortest traversable route from the child's home to the relevant school/s. The shortest route is used for determining eligibility only, it may be either a pedestrian or vehicular route.

A pedestrian route is being used to determine which bus one should get. If children could go to school through the fields the parents would not be looking for a bus to bring them to school. It is simply ridiculous. I ask the Minister in her answer not to pawn this off on Bus Éireann because the school transport scheme is operated by Bus Éireann on behalf of the Minister’s Department. Her Department pays for it and is ultimately responsible for education. I commend the Minister again on getting the schools back but the way the buses have operated leaves much to be desired. These parents found out five days before the school was to open that their children were no longer entitled to a ticket to go to Tulla, as did a number of other families in Broadford. Instead they would have to make their own arrangements. Carpooling is what is happening now, which means that children from different families are sharing cars by necessity. That is hardly what the Department of Education and Skills desires to bring about in these times when all of these precautions are in place. I look forward to the Minister’s reply.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this matter today.

Before I address the specific issue raised, I would like to provide the House an outline of the extent of the school transport service.

School transport is a significant operation managed by Bus Éireann, as the Deputy has noted, on behalf of the Department. In the 2019-20 school year over 120,000 children, including over 14,200 children with special educational needs, were transported in over 5,000 vehicles on a daily basis to primary and post-primary schools throughout the country covering over 100 million km at a cost of over €219 million in 2019.

The purpose of the Department's school transport scheme is, having regard to available resources, to support transport to and from school of children who reside remote from their nearest school. Under the terms of the scheme, children are eligible for school transport if they satisfy the distance criteria, which are 3.2 km at primary level and 4.8 km at post-primary level, and are attending their nearest school as determined by my Department-Bus Éireann, having regard to ethos and language. All children who are eligible for school transport and who completed the application and payment process on time for the 2020-21 school year have been accommodated on school transport services where such services are in operation.

Children who are not eligible for school transport, but who completed the application process on time, are considered for spare seats that may exist after eligible children have been facilitated. Such seats are referred to, as the Deputy has previously stated, as concessionary seats. The provision of a seat on a concessionary basis in a given year does not confer any continuing entitlement for that user in following years as concessionary places are entirely contingent on there being spare seats once eligible users are provided for.

To date for the 2020-21 school year, Bus Éireann has issued or allocated tickets to over 97,000 children on the primary and post-primary school transport schemes, including tickets for over 26,200 concessionary applicants. The closing date for payment for the 2020-21 school year was Tuesday, 4 August 2020. The school transport scheme family portal was temporarily closed for applications and payments on 20 August 2020. This temporary closure was necessary to complete the work required to issue tickets to families who at that time remained due to be allocated a ticket for school transport services for the 2020-21 school year. The school transport scheme family portal has now re-opened. However, parents or guardians making an application or payment at this time for the 2020-21 year are reminded that while it is possible to submit a payment, payments made at this time are now considered late. Late applicants or families who pay late or both, both eligible and concessionary, are not guaranteed a seat and will only be allocated a seat if capacity is available once seats are allocated to those families who applied and paid on time for transport services for the 2020-21 school year.

In addition, applications and payments for post-primary seats completed or made after 4 August 2020 will be only considered when the 50% capacity required by new Covid-19 public health guidelines is achieved on each route. The timeframe for this will vary from route to route and may take a number of weeks to complete.

In the event of not securing a ticket where no capacity exists, or on cancellation, a full refund will be issued.

With regard to the review of the school transport scheme, as announced by my predecessor in October 2019, given the current evolving situation with Covid-19, the proposed review has been delayed.

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However, I propose to convene the steering group in the short term and to agree and supplement revised terms of reference to reflect the programme for Government, including an examination of issues such as the nearest or next nearest school.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter and for affording me the opportunity to provide an outline of the extent of the school transport scheme and to respond.

Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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The way this is being dealt with is unsatisfactory. Parents have found out five days in advance that they were not entitled to a place. Furthermore, they are unable to contact anybody. They are told to ring a certain number and when they ring it nobody answers. In the unlikely event that somebody does answer, they are transferred to somebody else. The particular parent I cited, whose three children have been denied a place, showed up at the Bus Éireann office today and was told everyone was working from home. That is a common problem across the Civil Service. Given that the Minister sits at Cabinet, she might raise this issue at a Cabinet meeting.

I see the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Coveney, in the Chamber. Working from home is not really working for people who rely on public services. It may be working for civil servants but it is not working for people who rely on their services and cannot get through to someone at the end of a telephone line. These are ordinary members of the public who pay their taxes and hope to access services. That is a difficulty that has been encountered by me and my colleagues in my constituency office. We need to look at how working from home is actually working.

I want to go back to the specifics of this issue. This idea that the shortest route will be measured not necessarily by vehicular access but also by pedestrian access is ludicrous. The gap road, as it is called, is simply not passable by a school bus. It is not passable by a car either during much of the winter months, particularly if there is frost, a flash flood or if trees fall, as they do in Ireland. The Minister knows what mountain gaps are like; she lives in Kerry. I will send her video footage of this road during the week if she will agree to look at it and address this issue. It seems that every and any excuse is being adopted and used to deprive people of school transport. I appreciate that there are difficulties, and the Minister has difficulties, but I ask her to address that. I have agreed to give Deputy Danny Healy-Rae a couple of seconds of my time to raise an issue, if the Minster is agreeable.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I have almost 140 children who cannot access school transport tickets-----

Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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That is a lot of children.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I would appreciate it if they could get them. All systems are closed down. Surely the Minister is not trying to achieve the 50% reduction on buses by denying children and parents the right to get their tickets as they always have done. Is that what is happening? Will the 50% reduction rule be achieved by not giving children the tickets they have always got? That is not fair or right. The Minister is from Kerry, as am I, and I am sure she must be inundated with calls about this matter. It is not fair to achieve the 50% reduction by not giving children bus tickets.

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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That is absolutely not correct. In the first instance, as I previously outlined, all those who were eligible and had paid on time were given their tickets. Where there was extra capacity, concessionary tickets were made available. We are now doing a review of bus routes to meet the new guidelines issued by NPHET just one week in advance of the return to school so as to reach the 50% capacity. Where there is additional capacity after that, the concessionary tickets will be made available to those who have paid on time.

In response to the issue Deputy McNamara raised, I am not in a position to comment on individual cases.

Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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Will the Minister look at the case?

Norma Foley (Kerry, Fianna Fail)
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I most certainly will look at the cases the Deputy raised.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I thank everyone for their co-operation. That concludes the Topical Issue Debate.

Michael McNamara (Clare, Independent)
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The proof of the pudding is in the eating.