Dáil debates

Thursday, 30 July 2020

9:15 pm

Photo of Jack ChambersJack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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I move:

That, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, and unless the Dáil shall otherwise order, the speaking arrangements recommended in the Appendices to the Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform titled 'Speaking time arrangements on the first round of Second Stage of a Bill, and on fixed-time debates', dated 29th July, 2020, be adopted and shall have effect from September, 2020, and such arrangements shall be reviewed by the Committee no later than 22nd December, 2020.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There is an amendment to be considered. Is amendment No. 1 being pressed? Who wants to address amendment No. 1? Insofar as pressing it, the amendment has already been discussed. Is Deputy Mac Lochlainn pressing the amendment?

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal, Sinn Fein)
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I am. I move amendment No. 1:

To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:

"notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, and unless the Dáil shall otherwise order, the following compromise speaking arrangements for Second Stage of a Bill as put forward by Sinn Féin at the meeting of the Business Committee on 30th July, 2020, suggesting: Government 20 minutes,

Sinn Féin 20 minutes,

all other Groups 10 minutes each,

Government 20 minutes,

Sinn Féin 15 minutes,

all other Groups 10 minutes each, and

Government 5 minutes, be adopted and shall have effect from September, 2020, and such arrangements shall be reviewed by the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform no later than 22nd December, 2020."

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 38; Níl, 105; Staon, 3.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Denise Mitchell and Pádraig Mac Lochlainn; Níl, Deputies Brendan Griffin and Jack Chambers.

Chris Andrews, John Brady, Martin Browne, Pat Buckley, Matt Carthy, Sorca Clarke, Rose Conway-Walsh, Réada Cronin, Seán Crowe, David Cullinane, Pa Daly, Pearse Doherty, Paul Donnelly, Dessie Ellis, Mairead Farrell, Michael Fitzmaurice, Kathleen Funchion, Johnny Guirke, Marian Harkin, Martin Kenny, Claire Kerrane, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn, Mary Lou McDonald, Denise Mitchell, Imelda Munster, Johnny Mythen, Louise O'Reilly, Darren O'Rourke, Eoin Ó Broin, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire, Ruairi Ó Murchú, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Maurice Quinlivan, Patricia Ryan, Brian Stanley, Pauline Tully, Mark Ward, Violet Wynne.

Níl

Cathal Berry, Colm Brophy, James Browne, Richard Bruton, Colm Burke, Peter Burke, Mary Butler, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Holly Cairns, Dara Calleary, Ciarán Cannon, Joe Carey, Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, Jack Chambers, Michael Collins, Niall Collins, Patrick Costello, Simon Coveney, Barry Cowen, Cathal Crowe, Cormac Devlin, Alan Dillon, Stephen Donnelly, Paschal Donohoe, Francis Noel Duffy, Bernard Durkan, Damien English, Alan Farrell, Frank Feighan, Peter Fitzpatrick, Joe Flaherty, Charles Flanagan, Seán Fleming, Norma Foley, Gary Gannon, Noel Grealish, Brendan Griffin, Simon Harris, Seán Haughey, Danny Healy-Rae, Michael Healy-Rae, Martin Heydon, Emer Higgins, Neasa Hourigan, Brendan Howlin, Heather Humphreys, Paul Kehoe, Alan Kelly, John Lahart, James Lawless, Brian Leddin, Michael Lowry, Marc MacSharry, Josepha Madigan, Catherine Martin, Steven Matthews, Paul McAuliffe, Charlie McConalogue, Helen McEntee, Mattie McGrath, Michael McGrath, Joe McHugh, Michael McNamara, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Jennifer Murnane O'Connor, Catherine Murphy, Eoghan Murphy, Verona Murphy, Gerald Nash, Hildegarde Naughton, Carol Nolan, Malcolm Noonan, Darragh O'Brien, Joe O'Brien, Cian O'Callaghan, Jim O'Callaghan, James O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Kieran O'Donnell, Richard O'Donoghue, Patrick O'Donovan, Fergus O'Dowd, Roderic O'Gorman, Christopher O'Sullivan, Pádraig O'Sullivan, Marc Ó Cathasaigh, Éamon Ó Cuív, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, Thomas Pringle, Anne Rabbitte, Neale Richmond, Michael Ring, Eamon Ryan, Matt Shanahan, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Brendan Smith, Duncan Smith, Niamh Smyth, Ossian Smyth, David Stanton, Robert Troy, Jennifer Whitmore.

Staon

Mick Barry, Richard Boyd Barrett, Paul Murphy.

Amendment declared lost.

9:25 pm

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Amendment No. 2 is in the name of the Regional Group. How stands the amendment? Sorry, it is in the name of the Independent Group. Mea maxima culpa.

Photo of Thomas PringleThomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent)
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I am pressing the amendment.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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On a point of order-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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What is the Deputy's point of order?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We have an amendment that sought to resolve this situation-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, that is not-----

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----and we are not allowed to discuss it at all.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy-----

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is a compromise which exposes the dishonesty of the argument that has been put by the other side-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please. Deputy Boyd Barrett-----

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----and which actually sought to resolve this situation.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett, please resume your seat.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The people deserve to know the dishonesty perpetrated here.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please resume your seat.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Seriously, the people deserve to know-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I was not here for the earlier debate, but I know it was extensive. Members have made their points. Please resume your seat. The debate has been had already. Resume your seat, please.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The substance of the-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please resume your seat.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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They do not know what is going on.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please resume your seat.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The amendment cannot be discussed-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Last evening, the penultimate meeting of this session, we saw an extraordinary level of collegiality whereby people agreed. The public will make up their own minds about what they see transpiring here this evening and how they see people behaving. Please. We have procedures. Will you resume your seat?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Ceann Comhairle-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, please. Resume your seat.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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They do not know what went on-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will you resume your seat?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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You know that-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, you are asked to resume your seat. Please respect the Chair.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I respect the Chair.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have always respected you. Please extend to the Chair the respect of resuming your seat. We do not need any help from that side.

9:30 pm

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I respect you.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Let us forget about all that. Resume your seat, Sir.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We have business to do.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is after 11.30 p.m. It is not a great or wise time to be making decisions. Please do not make me suspend the House.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This is unbelievable.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please do not make a farce of our Dáil. Resume your seat.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We are back to where we were-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, do not make a farce of our Dáil. Resume your seat. We are involved in a process whether we like it or not. The process, which is a democratic process whether we like it or not, must proceed. Resume your seat.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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A process without debate is not a democratic process.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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You are completely out of order and I will suspend the House if you insist on continuing to disrupt.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not democratic.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I appeal to you again, please, resume your seat.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I cannot stand by while democracy is sabotaged. That is what is happening-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is histrionics now at this stage.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is not-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please resume your seat. It is pure histrionics. You have made your substantive point. The public has heard the point you have had to make.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I doubt the public knows-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, resume your seat. Please, do not continue.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If this goes on any longer I will suspend. Please, resume your seat.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Ceann Comhairle; Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The House is suspended for five minutes.

Sitting suspended at 11.32 p.m. and resumed at 11.40 p.m.

9:35 pm

Photo of Thomas PringleThomas Pringle (Donegal, Independent)
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I move amendment No. 2:



To delete all words after “That” and substitute the following:“notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, and unless the Dáil shall otherwise order, the speaking arrangements recommended in the Appendices to the Report of the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform titled ‘Speaking time arrangements on the first round of Second Stage of a Bill, and on fixed-time debates’, dated 29th July, 2020, be amended by the substitution of the tables contained in the Schedule to this amendment with effect from September, 2020, and such arrangements shall be reviewed by the Committee on Standing Orders and Dáil Reform no later than 22nd December, 2020.
SCHEDULE
Second Stage Debate
Gov SF  Lab SD Sol/PBP  Reg RIG IND Gov SF 
20 20 15 15 15 15 15 15 20 20
Gov SF  Gov Lab Gov SD Gov Sol/PBP  Etc...
20 20 20 5 20 5 20 5
100 minute Debate
Gov SF  Lab SD Sol/PBP  Reg RIG IND Gov SF 
15 10 5 5 5 5 5 5 10 6
Gov SF  Gov SF 
10 6 7 6
135 minute Debate
Gov SF  Lab SD Sol/PBP  Reg RIG IND Gov SF 
20 15 6.5 6.5 6.5 8.5 6.5 6.5 15 5
Gov SF  Gov SF 
15 5 13.5 4.5
200 Minute Debate
Gov SF  Lab SD Sol/PBP  Reg RIG IND Gov SF 
30 22.5 10 10 10 12.5 10 10 25 10
Gov SF  Gov SF 
20 5 20 5

Amendment put:

The Dáil divided: Tá, 61; Níl, 75; Staon, 0.


Tellers: Tá, Deputies Catherine Murphy and Thomas Pringle; Níl, Deputies Brendan Griffin and Jack Chambers.

Chris Andrews, Mick Barry, Richard Boyd Barrett, John Brady, Martin Browne, Pat Buckley, Holly Cairns, Matt Carthy, Sorca Clarke, Michael Collins, Catherine Connolly, Rose Conway-Walsh, Réada Cronin, Seán Crowe, David Cullinane, Pa Daly, Pearse Doherty, Paul Donnelly, Dessie Ellis, Mairead Farrell, Kathleen Funchion, Gary Gannon, Johnny Guirke, Marian Harkin, Michael Healy-Rae, Brendan Howlin, Alan Kelly, Martin Kenny, Claire Kerrane, Pádraig Mac Lochlainn, Mary Lou McDonald, Mattie McGrath, Denise Mitchell, Imelda Munster, Catherine Murphy, Paul Murphy, Johnny Mythen, Gerald Nash, Carol Nolan, Cian O'Callaghan, Richard O'Donoghue, Louise O'Reilly, Darren O'Rourke, Eoin Ó Broin, Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire, Ruairi Ó Murchú, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, Aengus Ó Snodaigh, Thomas Pringle, Maurice Quinlivan, Patricia Ryan, Seán Sherlock, Róisín Shortall, Bríd Smith, Duncan Smith, Brian Stanley, Peadar Tóibín, Pauline Tully, Mark Ward, Jennifer Whitmore, Violet Wynne.

Níl

Colm Brophy, James Browne, Richard Bruton, Colm Burke, Mary Butler, Thomas Byrne, Jackie Cahill, Dara Calleary, Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, Jack Chambers, Niall Collins, Patrick Costello, Barry Cowen, Cathal Crowe, Cormac Devlin, Alan Dillon, Stephen Donnelly, Paschal Donohoe, Francis Noel Duffy, Bernard Durkan, Frank Feighan, Peter Fitzpatrick, Joe Flaherty, Charles Flanagan, Seán Fleming, Norma Foley, Noel Grealish, Brendan Griffin, Simon Harris, Seán Haughey, Martin Heydon, Emer Higgins, Neasa Hourigan, Heather Humphreys, Paul Kehoe, John Lahart, James Lawless, Brian Leddin, Michael Lowry, Marc MacSharry, Josepha Madigan, Catherine Martin, Steven Matthews, Paul McAuliffe, Helen McEntee, Michael McGrath, Joe McHugh, Aindrias Moynihan, Michael Moynihan, Jennifer Murnane O'Connor, Eoghan Murphy, Verona Murphy, Hildegarde Naughton, Malcolm Noonan, Darragh O'Brien, Joe O'Brien, Jim O'Callaghan, James O'Connor, Willie O'Dea, Kieran O'Donnell, Patrick O'Donovan, Fergus O'Dowd, Roderic O'Gorman, Christopher O'Sullivan, Pádraig O'Sullivan, Marc Ó Cathasaigh, Neale Richmond, Michael Ring, Eamon Ryan, Matt Shanahan, Brendan Smith, Niamh Smyth, Ossian Smyth, David Stanton, Robert Troy.

Amendment declared lost.

Motion agreed to.