Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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3. To ask the Minister for Housing, Planning, and Local Government if shared equity will be considered in his approach to affordable housing; and if the purchase prices he has quoted recently in the media are inclusive or exclusive of the shared equity stake to be acquired by the State. [17909/20]

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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As the Minister will announce the detail of his affordable housing scheme in September, I will not ask him to reveal the detail of it. I have a concern that he seems to have two different and competing definitions of what constitutes affordable housing. During the election campaign he correctly called for affordable homes to be delivered at a cost of €250,000 or less, a position shared by Sinn Féin. More recently, he is on the record of the Dáil as saying that setting absolute limits on the price of affordable homes is flawed and that he is instead opting for the equity share model. Can he clarify which of the two models he is basing his scheme on and the full price he will expect people to pay for much-needed affordable homes?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy. As he knows, I am committed to putting affordability back at the heart of our housing system through the expansion and acceleration of State-backed affordable housing.

Long-term financial sustainability is an important guiding principle to ensure that individuals and families can be helped to secure affordable housing on an ongoing basis.

Therefore, the Housing (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009, under which affordable home for purchase will be made available, provides for a charge equal to the percentage discount on market value up to a maximum of 40%. The amount charged must be repaid to the Housing Authority by the end of the charge period of at least 25 years. It may also be paid off by instalments anytime after the first five years of the charge period.

Since taking up office at the end of June I have established two top-level groups of delivery partners. One will target homelessness services and social housing provision in the immediate term and another will work on homelessness, social and public housing. In the weeks ahead I will be expanding the work to encompass affordable housing. I have started that work, building on the work I did in opposition and on the commitments I made in my party's manifesto and those contained in the programme for Government. While I am preparing and doing that work, I will not inhibit what might be in it. There will be a number of delivery mechanisms in an affordable scheme that works.

While I mentioned ceilings and rates on salaries and prices, I remind the Deputy that the motion brought forward by Sinn Féin on affordable housing referred to basic salary caps of €75,000 for couples, which is not helpful. I say that because in urban areas, such as the greater Dublin area, a couple earning average incomes will be over that threshold. I want to make sure that cohort is included in proposed schemes.

I will not set a ceiling on prices yet. I will bring a detailed report on delivery to the House and publish it in the autumn. I seek feedback. The Deputy has published a scheme which is very similar to one of mine. We all want to make sure that we provide affordable housing which can be purchased by working people. That is what I intend to do.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister. The problem is that there are two ways of addressing this issue. The first is that houses are built and sold at cost price and, in that scenario, the price can be determined at the outset. The alternative is to take a market price at a discount, but that discount must be repaid. That second model is of shared equity, as the Minister has just mentioned. The difficulty is that when that model was used most recently, when Fianna Fáil was most recently in government, it caused problems when the crash of 2008 happened because, under the old shared ownership scheme, 44% of shared ownership householders fell into significant mortgage arrears in the years that followed. That was four times the mortgage arrears rate for the overall economy.

Shared equity is not affordability. Rather, it is simply a way to get around the Central Bank's sensible macroprudential rules. Will the Minister opt for the full-cost recovery model which would allow for the delivery of genuinely affordable homes - at prices in Dublin, for example, of €230,000 or less - or will he go for the shared equity model, under which people have an initial price of €250,000 or €260,000 but ultimately must pay more than €300,000 because, as the Minister said, they must repay 40% in addition to the mortgage? That latter option is not genuine affordability.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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Sometimes the Deputy thinks he has all the answers on these matters but he does not. There are not only two mechanisms to deliver affordable homes. There are other mechanisms that can deliver. I have stated publicly the guide on prices that I want to see. Depending on the type of house in question and the area in which it is, that price would be between €160,000 and €260,000. There will be different economic realities depending on the sites of those houses. There is an emphasis in the programme for Government on delivering public homes on public land and affordable homes. I am also bringing that emphasis. There will be options for affordable purchase and cost rental. We also need a national cost rental plan. I have asked the expert group, who have met on that matter for well over a year, to start to conclude their considerations and bring me a report before the end of the year. It is important that we get this right. There may be a number of delivery mechanisms for affordable homes and I am looking at those options. I will not restrict myself at this early stage because I do not think that would be prudent. I believe that if the Deputy were sitting in my chair, he would not restrict himself either. My priority is making sure that couples and individuals will be able to buy homes that are truly affordable.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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My concern is that the Minister is evading the question. I am not talking about delivery streams, I am talking about the fundamental principle of what constitutes affordability. There is a universally accepted distinction in the industry between building homes and selling them at the cost of building them, and thereby getting genuine affordability, or allowing the market to dictate a price and the State taking a shared equity portion which must, ultimately, be repaid. The difference is that if the Government opts for the second option that the Minister has talked about repeatedly, families do not end up buying a home for €250,000 or less, but pay €300,000 or more. That is what happened in O'Devaney Gardens. The purchase price was allegedly €310,000 but finally amounted to €360,000. The available options are houses that are bought at cost price or at a market discount. One cannot have both, and the sooner the Minister decides which of those models he will go for, the sooner hard-working families are going to know if this Government will deliver genuinely affordable homes or, like the most recent Fianna Fáil Government, homes that look affordable but are not and get purchasers into trouble at a later stage.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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To be fair, if we had moved on the Sinn Féin motion that the Deputy put forward, we would have had an inferior and unworkable affordable housing scheme that would have left more than 40% of those who need affordable housing out of the system on the basis of the arbitrary cap on earnings of €75,000 for a couple.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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What the Minister has said is not true. He should read the proposal.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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I did not interrupt the Deputy once. The Sinn Féin scheme stated that a couple can apply if their gross earnings are less than €75,000. We are not going to do that.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Nor will Sinn Féin.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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Tá brón orm, but I did not interrupt the Deputy once.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to hear only one voice.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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Sometimes the Deputy does not like hearing the truth and that is fine. The truth may not suit the Deputy. Let us focus on the issue at hand.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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Which model of delivery is the Government going to pursue?

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Ó Broin, please.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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I am exercised about this matter. It is a priority for me and has been for a number of years. Others who are now questioning me are late converts to the affordable purchase scheme, including people who voted against affordable purchase just 18 months ago.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister is misleading the House.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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What I have said is true and on the record of the House. I would say to the Deputy that the public do not want to see him shouting at me and bickering with me. The public want to see an affordable purchase scheme that will deliver for them. That is what this Government intends to provide. When I have a plan, I will publish it and discuss it in an adult way. I hope that there will be constructive engagement from the Opposition, which there is in many parts of the Opposition. I hope to do that in an open way so we can deliver affordable homes for our people.

Danny Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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May I ask a supplementary question?

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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The time for that question is over. The Deputy is not allowed to come in. I will move on to the next question from Deputy Cian O'Callaghan.