Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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I am grateful for the opportunity to raise this issue. On the issue raised by Deputy Sherlock, Deputies from all across the country, including myself, are raising the issue of the lack of places at second level, week in and week out, in this Chamber. The Minister needs to take that matter very seriously. Deputies, including myself, have raised such concerns and it is a worrying situation in all parts of the country. That is a considerable challenge for the Department of Education and Skills.

As the Minister is aware, there is currently a campaign under way calling on him to reduce class sizes for delivering equality of opportunity in schools, DEIS, band 1 schools. The campaigners argue that it is unfair and that the smaller class sizes achieved under the confidence and supply agreement in recent budgets have not seen corresponding reductions in class sizes for DEIS band 1 schools and this needs to be rectified. I agree with those campaigners. When the pupil-teacher ratio reduction was negotiated, it was assumed that it would be passed on correspondingly to DEIS band 1 schools but it was not and we have not seen those reductions.

I am proud that the DEIS scheme was established by Fianna Fáil to provide the supports needed to ensure that every child can reach his or her potential. The DEIS scheme works and it should be protected and enhanced so that children from disadvantaged backgrounds can have a greater opportunity to reach their full potential. The DEIS scheme appears to be working.

The Minister will know that the evaluation of DEIS schools at the post-primary level shows that the achievement and attainment gaps between DEIS and non-DEIS post-primary schools continue to narrow in the performance of students in the junior certificate and in retention rates. There has been a rise in the percentage of students in DEIS schools taking English and mathematics at higher level. The evidence is that the scheme is working and results and school completion rates are going up in key areas. The issue is the rate at which it is improving. It is not improving at a rate that would allow pupils to compete at the same level in the very near future. While I accept that the additional supports that have been provided will take time to appear in data, there is a need to continue increasing support to speed up this process.

There is already a recognition in DEIS band 1 schools that a reduced class size is of significant value and smaller class sizes are already included in the original specification. However, the pace at which progress is taking place needs to be accelerated.

As the pupil-teacher ratio has been lowered considerably in the general national school system, the competitive boost given to DEIS band 1 schools is being eroded. This could result in the comparative progress which has been made in this area also eroding. Is the Minister considering the proposals raised previously in this House and that are currently being raised by the INTO in particular? I thank the INTO and all the teachers involved in the INTO campaign. It is refreshing that, as they have always done, teachers took time out of their own day to try to advocate for their students. I look forward to hearing the response from the Minister.

Joe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this important issue of delivering equality of opportunity in schools, DEIS. It is the main policy initiative of the Department of Education and Skills to address educational disadvantage at school level.

The DEIS plan is based on the findings of an extensive review of the DEIS programme, which involved consultations with all relevant stakeholders. It sets out the vision for future interventions in the critical area of educational disadvantage policy and builds on what has already been achieved by schools that have benefited from the additional supports available under the initial DEIS programme introduced in 2005.

This year, my Department will spend in the region of €125 million on the DEIS programme providing for smaller class sizes in urban band 1 schools as well as other supports, including DEIS grants, enhanced book grants, home school community liaison co-ordinators, curriculum supports, priority access to continuing professional development and the school excellence fund for DEIS. Evidence from the various evaluations of the DEIS programme demonstrates that it is having a positive effect on tackling educational disadvantage and is succeeding in improving educational outcomes.

Within the DEIS programme itself, in the 2019-2020 school year there are 891 schools serving in excess of 185,000 pupils. This represents approximately 20% of the overall school population, with 231 of the total number of schools being DEIS band 1 schools and availing of smaller class size.

The DEIS programme allows for a reduced class size in urban band 1 primary schools, with the application of a preferential staffing schedule to these schools of 20:1 at junior classes and 24:1 at senior classes to support those students at the highest risk of educational disadvantage.

The DEIS plan acknowledges that the allocation of teaching resources to DEIS primary schools with the highest concentrations of children at risk of educational disadvantage has served to improve learning outcomes and commits to the evaluation of the level of teaching resources for schools participating in DEIS to be undertaken to inform future policy in this area, and work has been undertaken in this regard.

To progress this, a class size working group was established comprising representatives from the education partners, the Educational Research Centre and the relevant units within my Department. A report on the work of this group is currently being finalised and will take into consideration the feedback and observations of the working group members. It is my intention that this will inform future policy in this area.

Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his response. The changes required are comparatively small compared to the changes that would be required across the entire education system. Fianna Fáil wants to see lower class sizes. That has been our stated objective for a number of years and we succeeded partially with the lowest class sizes on record as part of the confidence and supply agreement. That work has to continue in the general national school system but it also must be extended to DEIS. We will be strongly advocating that that would happen and that the Minister would make arrangements for it to happen.

The INTO has reported that many DEIS schools are facing growing mental health and literacy challenges. There is also the challenge in some parts of the country of organised crime affecting children in schools, sometimes in DEIS schools but at other times, as the Minister is aware, in non-DEIS schools also where criminal activity is influencing the way children behave and how they develop later in life. The extra supports DEIS band 1 offers are one way of helping to tackle criminality spreading to very young groups. People may say that is an exaggeration but I am speaking from the experience of teachers in junior primary schools. What is going on is frightening. The Minister's officials graciously met a delegation from a particular school affected by this which is looking to get DEIS band 1 status. It sees the lower pupil-teacher ratio in DEIS band 1 as potentially being of significant help in dealing with challenges it faces due to criminality in its area. That pupil-teacher ratio must be reduced further.

I accept that consideration is taking place in the context of the broader DEIS review. The review has been ongoing since last year and will provide important details on progress. It is my understanding that all schools are considered in the context of the review of DEIS. Can the Minister confirm that the pupil-teacher ratio for DEIS band 1 is being considered and that a reduction in that is being considered by the group? If not, will the Minister commit to a short review to be published at the same time or soon after the DEIS review and the working group review also?

Joe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
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Everything is on the table in terms of class size. That is the reason the working group was set up. It includes representatives from the social inclusion unit, the special education unit, the teacher allocation unit, the statistics unit, education stakeholders such as the INTO, the Irish Primary Principals' Network and the Catholic Primary School Management Association. Education and Training Boards Ireland and An Foras Pátrúnachta were also represented on the working group, as was the Education Research Group, so it is a fairly extensive group. It has done a lot of work. That work is almost complete. We will be producing that report in a few weeks' time. All aspects of class size will be examined.

There is a twin-track approach. While that is going on we are reviewing the DEIS scheme. We are at a significant stage now in respect of that. I am aware it is an area of interest to the Leas-Cheann Comhairle in terms of the value of DEIS, its impact and the history of DEIS. It was introduced in 2005, very much on a geographical basis due to the socioeconomic indicators, but life has got much more complex. The Deputy raised issues to do with crime and other pressures on the system. We have to be very targeted in respect of the support.

Regarding the working group, that work is almost complete. We will be following through on that in a few weeks' time. Significant progress has been made in respect of the review of DEIS as a collective. It is more nuanced and complex but we have to ensure that it is targeted. There is a massive amount of work involved in that. That is not to take from anything we have already but to build upon the momentum because there has been massive gains in respect of tackling educational disadvantage through DEIS supports.