Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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57. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if the childcare subvention schemes that were operational prior to the national childcare scheme will continue to accept new applicants; and if new applicants will only be eligible to receive national childcare scheme levels of childcare subsidy. [43238/19]

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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72. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if parents on current subsidy schemes such as the community childcare subvention programme and the childcare education and training support programme will be detrimentally affected following the introduction of the national childcare scheme; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [43277/19]

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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80. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs the measures being taken under the national childcare scheme to assist families that previously would have been on the community childcare subvention programme. [43219/19]

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if the childcare subvention schemes that were operational prior to the national childcare scheme will continue to accept new applicants and if the new applicants will be eligible to receive the levels of childcare subsidy outlined by the national childcare scheme. I know the Minister understands exactly what I am trying to ask although the question is a mouthful.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 57, 72 and 80 together.

As I have indicated, the national childcare scheme will open for applications on 20 November. The current childcare subvention schemes will continue to accept applications for a further short period of time. The community childcare subvention scheme, CCSP, will remain open to new applicants until Friday, 15 November 2019. The training and employment childcare, TEC, schemes will remain open to new applications until 14 February 2020. No new applications for these schemes can be made after these dates.

The transition to the national childcare scheme represents a major change management initiative for Pobal as scheme administrator.

Accordingly, while applications for CCSP will be accepted until Friday, 15 November, providers are strongly urged to submit all applications by 1 November, to the greatest extent possible, so that applications can be processed in a timely way and Pobal can concentrate on preparations for the opening of the national childcare scheme.

Any parent who is in receipt of support under the current legacy schemes can choose to remain on that scheme and can continue to receive the same level of support that they are receiving at present. These families can also choose to move over to the national childcare scheme at any time from 20 November onwards and, for many, this will mean receiving a higher level of subsidy towards the cost of their childcare.

This approach reflects my commitment that no one will lose out in the transition to the new scheme.

Through budget 2020, I have secured the full year costs of the national childcare scheme for 2020, in addition to extra enhancements that will be of particular benefit to lone parents and other working families. Certain families already had the option to stay on existing schemes until the end of August 2020. They will now be able to stay on those schemes until they are no longer eligible or they no longer require childcare.

From September 2020, the maximum hours for the new scheme will increase from 40 hours per week to 45 hours, particularly benefiting parents of school-age children who need before-school and after-school childcare to include time for work and commuting. Low-income parents who are not working or studying will have their hours increased from 15 to 20 hours. This will support our objective of promoting employment and reducing poverty.

The introduction of the national childcare scheme will increase the number of families who can access financial support, with some families now receiving support towards their childcare costs for the first time.

As mentioned, it will also see many families qualify for a higher level of support, including as a result of the important new enhancements from budget 2020. For example, the budget measures will see maximum subsidy rates for a child aged under one increase from their current level of €145 per week, to €204 per week from 25 November 2019 when they move on to the national childcare scheme, NCS, and to €229.50 per week from September 2020.

I am pleased to be able to provide the House with assurances about the financial impact of the national childcare scheme from its inception. While there were concerns that some groups would lose out in the transition to the new scheme, I assure Deputies that this will not be the case.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for her response and clarification. She has answered much of what I wanted answered, but I still have a concern, as highlighted by Louise Bayliss from Single Parents Acting for the Rights of Kids, SPARK. From what the Minister has said I understand that the families that have already signed up to the scheme can stay on it indefinitely until the end. They will not be asked to come off it. There was a fear over the 15 hours going to 20 hours for low-income families going back to education. They used to have 40 hours and there was a fear that they were coming back to 15 or 20 hours.

Anybody who is on the scheme can stay on the scheme and the new criteria only apply to the new people coming forward. People can stay on the existing schemes until they finish their course, their job activation or anything else. There is no time limit on it. It is not just for 12 months as was mooted at the beginning. That is the clarification I seek on that.

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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I would also like 100% clarity on that.

The Minister has said no one will lose out, but that is not accurate for future participants, is it? If what she is saying is correct and the clarification is provided that these parents can stay on the old scheme as long as they are eligible, it still means that in future working lone parents will no longer be able to apply for the old schemes which will be gone after a short period and therefore they can only qualify for this new scheme, meaning, as I understand it, they will lose out.

This is a group of people who are at high risk of poverty. I believe one in five working lone parents are at risk of poverty. SPARK has pointed out that under current childcare subvention rates the parent could qualify for €145 a week which would drop to a maximum subsidy of €51 per week, which would be a substantial loss. In the past I believe the Minister has referred to about 10% of parents losing out under the new scheme, but that 10% happens to be the 10% most at risk of poverty.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I appreciate the Deputies' questions and I know the scheme has complexity. We have worked hard to ensure that no one will lose out in transitioning from the current targeted schemes to the national childcare scheme. That was the promise made. In that regard, we have ensured that they can remain on scheme they were on. Initially it was up to August 2020 and now it is up to 2021. After that they will have finished their studies and their children will be older or the budget can ultimately be decided for the following period.

I understand the Deputies are asking about some lone parents who will need childcare for the first time who will be on the national childcare scheme and not in the transition process. For lone parents accessing the national childcare scheme in a few months there may not be absolutely the same level of supports as there were in the targeted schemes. However, in budget 2020 I secured funding to increase hours from 40 to 45 and from 15 to 20, and also after-school hours from September of next year. One of the primary motivating factors behind that was to increase hours and subsidies so that these more vulnerable groups could have the levels of support they require.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for the clarification. She has answered one part: there will be a gap for about ten months in one strand of it if they need it. That is welcome. Depending on the number, will the Department be able to accommodate those exceptional cases that come forward?

I have an example of Mary, a single parent with an 18 month old child, John. She has been out of work since the lad was born and she has now decided to go back. The only subsidy she can get is for 15 hours, which will increase to 20 hours, but technically she needs 30. However, she cannot get a childcare place because, as we all know, capacity in Dublin is a major issue and a parent can only enrol a small child if they are prepared to enrol that child full time. She will be unable to afford full-time childcare. Therein is another problem because under the old scheme she could have got full-time childcare support. How will the Minister square that circle?

Paul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
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From September 2020, will any parents have a lower benefit under the new scheme than they have under the existing schemes?

I agree with the principle of universality, which is a good thing because it means that society as a whole has a buy-in for something. Therefore it is good to go for universality. However, this problem arises for half-universality because it gives a subsidy but to a system that is controlled by private operators who are entitled to hike up the prices as they wish in a sector with very low-paid workers. This problem comes down to the State trying to enable some form of universal access but through private providers. Is the answer not to move to a national childcare service and to provide access to childcare as a State provision free at the point of use?

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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I am very proud of what we have managed to achieve in the lead in to and the establishment of the national childcare scheme, particularly in placing a focus on the families about whom the Deputies are speaking. They are fully aware that one of the major objectives of the scheme as I have developed it is to decrease the level of child poverty and, in particular, increase and empower vulnerable families and lone parents. We have done it in different ways before. The move to the national childcare scheme is to enable those families with the least money to receive the most subsidies. We are maintaining that objective as we move to the national childcare scheme.

To answer Deputy Paul Murphy's question specifically, my hope is that is not the case, but it depends on the ages of the children involved, their requirements and how many hours of childcare are required. We have increased the number of hours, particularly with those families in mind. Until people receive the subsidies in calculating how much their children require, we will not know, but we will continue to monitor the position.

There was one other question, although I know that I have run out of time.

Anne Rabbitte (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I think it was to do with the budget if there were exceptional cases.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
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We are open to hearing about those concerns and being able to respond. We have tried to ensure the overall objectives will be met and I anticipate that that will be the case.