Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

55. To ask the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs if she has met with a group (details supplied); if she has received a report compiled by the organisation; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [43418/19]

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Does the Minister believe Tusla is fit for purpose and that it can deal with the many pressing issues? I am concerned about the way it treats the Alliance of Birth Mothers Campaigning for Justice which is campaigning for justice for its members' children.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I understand the Deputy is referring to the Alliance of Birth Mothers Campaigning for Justice. I have not met the group but I have received its report. It is important that the voices of those who engage with our services are heard.  The sample size in the report relates to 25 mothers. They represent mothers whose children are either in the care of their fathers or of Tusla, the Child and Family Agency. The report is concerned with the actions of Tusla, the courts and An Garda Síochána. Although the sample size is small, the feedback and experiences of people who live through challenging life events should influence how our agencies work with vulnerable parents and children.  

Parents may find the decisions of the courts regarding where their children shall live to be distressing and upsetting. It is of the utmost importance that efforts are made to support parents where possible and to ensure that a child only enters care where all other solutions have failed. While such decisions can be heart-breaking for a mother, the State, through its agencies and the courts, must bear in mind the child’s best interest and safety and act accordingly.

Under its new child protection methodology, Signs of Safety, Tusla is working in co-operation with family members of children who are considered to be at risk to find safe solutions for them. This methodology was rolled out to all 17 Tusla areas in 2019. I am very glad to say that the formal feedback from families who have been part of a Signs of Safety intervention has been positive. Tusla has also strengthened policy and practice where a parent voluntarily places his or her child in care.

The report proposes that accountability, competency and transparency should be key guiding principles for services working with children and families. I agree and I also believe that these principles are respected. I want to assure the Deputy that in Ireland, we set a very high standard for the care and protection of our children. Tusla's valuable work is subject to oversight and scrutiny by the Health Information and Quality Authority, HIQA, the Ombudsman, the Ombudsman for Children and CORU, the latter in its registration of social workers. In addition, the Public Appointments Service ensures fair procedures in the appointment of professionals.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As the Minister says, I am referring to the Alliance of Birth Mothers Campaigning for Justice. It was launched some time ago and I know Deputy Rabbitte has attended its meetings.

I honestly do not believe Tusla is fit for purpose. Has the situation outlined by the Alliance of Birth Mothers Campaigning for Justice ever arisen before? I have heard of many concerning cases. I have handed the Minister a dossier. I hope she has read it. It is quite distressing, serious and damaging. Tusla, the Child and Family Agency, has been lambasted in several reports in recent years. For the first time, questions are being asked about whether it is fit for purpose in its current form. An audit carried out by Dr. Geoffrey Shannon, the very well-respected special rapporteur on child protection, found that communication between Tusla and An Garda Síochána was poor, with limited levels of inter-agency co-operation and co-ordination between them falling far short of international best practice. This is standard practice all over the world. A lot needs to be done. Socks need to be pulled up. The Minister needs to pull her socks up to turn this agency into a vehicle that is ft for purpose. There are huge concerns about it.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I believe that this agency is fit for purpose. There are challenges and failures but children are safe today because of its work. It is not a finished product and further progress is needed. As society evolves, so will Tusla. It has achieved much in its five years. It has brought a myriad of disparate groups, technologies and practices together under one umbrella. It has responded to numerous high-profile tragedies that occurred before its formation. It is important to acknowledge the good work that has been done and is done by the agencies on a daily basis.

In my initial response to the Deputy, I identified several oversight bodies that offer recommendations and analysis on the challenges the agency faces and the things that ought to be changed. Those recommendations are presented to me, action plans are developed by Tusla, the action plans are put in place and the results are monitored. Tusla and its supporting bodies have taken many steps to ensure it is fit for purpose, including its own directorate of transformation and policy, which has made many strides in reshaping and refocusing its policies. As I said before, that does not mean there are no challenges remaining. However I absolutely believe it is fit for purpose. The reform process it has identified is under way and it will be able to build on what it has done before, especially with its new leadership. I have fought for and secured resources to support the agency in doing that.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I wish I could be as absolutely confident. The Minister mentioned accountability and transparency. They are not in evidence. As the Minister said, Tusla has been in place for five years now. As I said at the time, many officials were simply hived off from the HSE and left to their own devices. Parents deal with Tusla, An Garda Síochána and the courts by themselves. The Alliance of Birth Mothers Campaigning for Justice is a group that has come together because its members are not getting a fair crack of the whip. They mean business.

The Minister says there is a lot more to be done. That is true. I would like to be half as confident as she is that Tusla is fit for purpose. Quite clearly it is not. I speak to members of the Garda on a regular basis. All week long they deal with cases with Tusla and social workers. At 3 p.m. or 4 p.m. on Friday evenings, the social workers call An Garda and say it is the problem of the Garda now. Is that proper communication? The report found that there is not proper communication with An Garda Síochána. These are the statutory bodies that should be dealing with this. I meet superintendents who tell me this all the time. They get a phone call and the cases land in their laps. They have limited resources. They might spend all week dealing with Tusla and its officials but nobody is available from 4 p.m. on Friday evening until Monday morning. On a bank holiday weekend they will have to wait until Tuesday morning. Tusla is not fit for purpose and it is not doing what it should be doing.

Katherine Zappone (Dublin South West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. I note the information and the specific examples he has provided. We take note when the Deputy makes representations. I suggest there is evidence of good inter-agency co-operation, particularly between Tusla and An Garda Síochána, which is what the Deputy's comments largely concerned, as well as other bodies working with children and their families.

As the Deputy knows, social workers and gardaí work together on a daily basis in the interests of children and in the main, these relationships are positive and work well. However, as the Deputy notes, the system has benefited greatly from the audit performed by Dr. Shannon and other investigative reports. Recommendations were made in light of that audit. As a result, An Garda Síochána and Tusla published the Children First joint working protocol to reflect the provisions of the new Children and Family Relationships Act 2015 and the Children First national guidance for the protection and welfare of children of 2017. That protocol covers respective responsibilities in key areas, including notifications of suspected abuse between both agencies, the role and function of each agency, confidentiality and information-sharing, ongoing case management, liaison management, structures and meetings. I can assure the Deputy that the ongoing implementation of joint working strategies is subject to ongoing analysis and review by Tusla and An Garda Síochána and is monitored by this group.