Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for accepting this issue.

The people on whose behalf I am speaking tonight are the salt of the earth. They are predominantly rural people who adore the sport of coursing. Coursing is an integral part of what they are all about. It is part of our history and what we are. I believe passionately in this subject. It is so important to raise it with the Minister, Deputy Madigan. Of the 14 lagomorph carcases found, 13 of which reputedly tested positive for rabbit haemorrhagic disease virus 2,RHD2, how many were hares? If any was a hare, was it made available for independent testing? Has the National Parks and Wildlife Service, NPWS, mapped the spread of the disease from its original source? It seems ironic to me - I am not going into theories on what did or did not happen - that the disease is jumping not only from county to bordering county but from one end of the country to the other, from north, east, west and south. What is happening is very erratic. I have questions about that.

Why has the Department and the NPWS continuously refused offers of help from those best placed to monitor the overall situation? An example is our excellent Irish Coursing Club, which has an integral network of clubs throughout the country and is recognised worldwide as being a protector of the Irish hare.

I remind the Minister that a licence to net was granted on a Friday and revoked on a Saturday on the strength of a hare being found in Wexford. It was supposed to have been infected. How was it discovered, literally within a couple of hours and without due process and proper independent testing, that the hare was infected? All of a sudden, all hell broke lose. The licence was revoked and our coursing industry is now in dire jeopardy as a result. I am questioning everything that has happened. I want everything to be scrutinised because there is an awful lot riding on this.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I too thank the Ceann Comhairle for accepting this matter. Many constituents and I listened to the head vet from the NPWS on "Morning Ireland" recently. The case he made for not issuing the licence for netting hares was absolutely comical. First, the NPWS official said during the programme that the service has been dealing with the disease only for six weeks although, at the beginning, he said his colleagues in the United Kingdom were aware of it for over two years. Why did the NPWS not take action when it was aware two years ago that the disease was so close to our shores? The official also said the disease can be spread by nets and boxes. He said he knew this from his colleagues in England. If so, why did he not advise the Irish Coursing Club last year to disinfect all nets and boxes?

Either he was not asked to say that a vaccine is available to stop this disease, or he avoided the question. If this disease is so dangerous to the native Irish hare and can be spread by humans by means of infected grass on their shoes, why did he say that steps have merely been taken to introduce disinfectant foot baths in national parks and on Scattery Island?

Should a nationwide campaign not have been introduced, as was done in the case of foot and mouth disease, in order to ensure that people who visit farms are disinfected when they arrive and leave? What is going on here? There are too many questions. Is it being suggested that this disease is confined to national parks? Most importantly, why is the NPWS not asking for a cull - by gassing - of all rabbits within a five-mile radius of the affected areas, as was done with badgers during the bovine TB epidemic? What is going on in the Department? Many people are suspicious. As rabbits are classed as vermin, the obvious reason for not culling, or for not calling for this much-needed cull, is that it would upset greatly those who are involved in the animal rights movement. There are too many unanswered questions here. There is too much subterfuge and deceit. We want answers now. The coursing clubs must be allowed to have their licences so they can bring in the hares, see how healthy they are and vaccinate them if necessary.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this important matter. It important for the House to be aware of the potentially devastating impact of rabbit haemorrhagic disease. When this disease was first reported in domestic farmed rabbits in China in 1984, it killed millions of animals within one year of its discovery. A new and more virulent strain of this virus, known as RHD2, emerged in France in 2010. It causes death within a few days of infection. Sick animals with RHD2 sometimes exhibit partial paralysis and bleeding from the eyes and mouth. On other occasions, they show no external symptoms whatsoever. Most distressingly, animals that are close to death in the latter stages of the disease often exhibit unusual behaviour, such as emerging from cover into the open and convulsing or fitting before dying. The virus has been detected throughout Europe in wild rabbits and hares. The Irish hare is native to Ireland and is found nowhere else. If this disease proves to be as infectious and lethal in Ireland as it has been elsewhere in Europe, the impact on the hare will be catastrophic.

As the Deputies mentioned, RHD2 has been seen in wild rabbits in the UK for a few years. Brown hares in the UK have also been hit with RHD2. Mortality rates in some areas saw up to 70% of brown hares wiped out completely. RHD2 was first confirmed in the wild here last August, which is not that long ago. The first two records came from rabbits - one in County Wicklow and the other in County Clare. As the Deputies are aware, I issued the licence on 1 August and I had to suspend it on 9 August. The first positive report from an Irish hare came on 9 August and related to an animal that was found dying in the Wexford Slobs. Since these initial incidents, a request for public involvement has led to more than 50 reports of dead rabbits and hares around the country. Each report has been followed up by local NPWS rangers. From these incidents, the disease has now been confirmed from counties Cork, Clare, Leitrim, Offaly, Wicklow and Wexford. There is no rhyme or reason for this distribution. I have simply listed the locations where these animals were found. They could have been found in any county. There is no cure for the virus. Although pet rabbits can be vaccinated against the disease, it has not yet been tested on hares.

Kevin O'Keeffe (Cork East, Fianna Fail)
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That is not true.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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Clearly, there would be some difficulties with vaccinating animals in the wild. Potentially, there are 233,000 hares and 2 million rabbits in Ireland. The Irish Coursing Club, ICC, has been mentioned. Hare coursing is administered by the ICC, which was set up under the Greyhound Industry Act 1958. Statutory responsibility for the Act resides with the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine. Licences are required by the ICC under the terms of the Wildlife Acts on behalf of affiliated clubs in order to facilitate the netting and tagging of hares for closed park meetings. As stated, I issued the licence for the 2019-2020 season to the ICC in late July to allow affiliated clubs to net hares for the purpose of hare coursing over the season.

The disease is density dependent, which means that the higher the density of animals, the higher the incidence of the disease. The virus is extremely resistant and remains viable for up to two months in the environment. It can be passed on by direct contact. Deputy Mattie McGrath mentioned that it can be carried on people's shoes. It can be passed on in faeces and urine. Infected carcasses can harbour infective virus for several months post mortem. The virus can also be transported on soil, shoes and clothing.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I was shocked to learn that the only criterion for being informed by the Minister as part of a briefing session she held last week was to be a representative of Fine Gael. It was very disappointing. It was very disrespectful to the people in Fianna Fáil who are keeping the Minister in power that a spokesperson was not chosen from that party. What was wrong with Sinn Féin? Why was a spokesman not chosen from that party? Why was a spokesperson not chosen from the Rural Independent Group? Why was our Whip not called to that meeting? It is as if a cosy Fine Gael cartel was getting information. This is a very serious national issue. People who are involved in coursing were not happy to hear that anyone who wanted to get the information that was there to be given out had to be wearing a blue shirt in order to go in and be briefed by the Minister. That was extremely unfair and disrespectful to the other Members, including the people who are keeping the Minister and her colleagues in power. They should not forget that the only reason they are in power as Ministers is that Fianna Fáil wants them to be there. It was disgraceful of them to keep Fianna Fáil out of a room last week. This is a very serious issue and the Minister is handling it very badly. I am disappointed.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I am disappointed with the Minister's reply. Is it a fact that a vaccine to stop this disease from spreading is now available? I am told that it is. I am also told that vaccination against this disease is taking place in Italy. I am very concerned about the Minister's impartiality. She made it known on national radio recently that she wants to see an end to hare coursing. Having expressed this opinion nationally, she is hardly impartial when she deals with the observations of the NPWS, which has shown itself to be incompetent in all matters relating to this virus. It knew about this two years ago, but it did not start to deal with it until the last six weeks. A good number of staff have been hanging around since they were political appointees in John Gormley's day. They have a vested interest in stopping rural pursuits and stopping coursing in Ireland. As far as I am concerned, all of this is blackguarding. The blackguarding must stop. I would have enjoyed a briefing last week as it would have allowed me to get answers from the Minister. Instead, we have had to raise the matter in the House as a Topical Issue. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for facilitating that. This is not going to be hidden and brushed under the carpet to suit the Minister and her Dublin-centric Cabinet colleagues who want to banish a tradition that has gone on in rural Ireland for centuries. It will go on. If the Minister drives it underground, it will be dangerous altogether. I want honesty, truth and upfront answers.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Mattie McGrath accused me of the same bias when he spoke about a rural-urban split during a Topical Issue debate last week.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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It is obvious.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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No Minister in my shoes in these circumstances would have been in a position to make any other decision than that which I made. I am disappointed that Deputy Michael Healy-Rae is being political about this matter because my assistant secretary spoke to him and gave him some details about this matter.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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The Minister is being political.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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People from Fine Gael asked to meet me. We have also met people from Fianna Fáil. We are open to meeting any public representative who wants information on this matter. There is no conspiracy. I regret that having issued the licence, I had no option other than to row back on it, based on the scientific evidence.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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What about the Minister's personal views?

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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As a Minister, I will not have it on my conscience that I could be responsible for exterminating - for want of a better word - the entire hare population. I understand the ICC's concerns. We have worked with the ICC and we are working with it now. When officials from the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine and the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine meet representatives of the NPWS and the ICC on Thursday, it will be possible to consider many of the proposals that have been mentioned by the Deputies to see what can be done to get back on track.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Time is running out.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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Another few hares are already with the laboratories. They are being tested. It is a very expensive test. We are waiting to hear the results. We are also looking at another three or four hares that have been found. This is something that has the potential to wipe out the hare population completely. I am not going to stand over that, despite any issues. It is my own party, so out of self-interest I would like to see coursing starting again.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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That is not what the Minister said on the radio.

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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There are people in my party who want to see that happen. In all good conscience, I cannot do that, based on the scientific evidence.

What Dr. Ferdia Marnell, head of animal ecology at the National Parks and Wildlife Service-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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What about a vaccine?

Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael)
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I take this very seriously, but my hands are tied at the moment and I regret that is the case from the Deputies' perspective. That is how it is.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry, Independent)
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I asked how many hares were affected and I never got an answer. We did not get an answer, which I would like to put on the record of the Dáil. Can the Minister please tell us how many hares were affected? There are people around the country who want to hear how many hares have been affected. Can I please put that on the record of the Dáil?

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, you have had your opportunity. We are moving on to the third item.