Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The next issue is in the names of Deputies Ruth Coppinger, Jack Chambers and Joan Burton. The Deputies have one minute each.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Can you give us one and a half minutes each, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle? It is normally four minutes for three Deputies.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Nóiméad amháin. We have to-----

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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This is a very important issue for the community of Hartstown in the Dublin West constituency, which has a population of more than 7,000. There is a crisis facing Hartstown community centre, which requires emergency works to be done in terms of fire exits, windows and a number of other issues. It was deemed necessary in an audit by the St. Laurence O'Toole trust, the church which owns the land.

This centre is extremely important to the community. It has a range of clubs, including sports and youth clubs and services for elderly people. Religious groups and many ethnic minorities use the centre who do not have other places to worship. Also, two childcare facilities use this community centre every day and 120 children and their families will be very put out if it closes, many of whom are on low pay. Those families rely on the centre.

The issue straddles a number of Departments, not just that of the Minister of State. The community is willing to fundraise but the State has to step in and assist also. This is a community provision so the Departments of Community and Rural Development, Children and Youth Affairs and Transport, Tourism and Sport, and obviously Fingal County Council, are involved. People are busily fundraising but they need State help as well.

I am appealing to the church which owns the land and the building to provide the management committee with a legal agreement and a lease giving them security. The community is willing to raise funds but it has to have security of tenure in that building in the future and in order to access State funds.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy took her minute and a half.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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It will have devastating consequences for the community of Hartstown if a local community centre, of which I am sure the Minister of State has many in his area, closes down. More than 100 families avail of preschool, Montessori and after-school services. Many local voluntary groups use the community centre on a daily basis. It is a busy centre, which has a significant level of throughput numbering some thousands per week.

With the scale of the capital investment required based on the fire safety audit and report, there is a major volunteer effort to secure funding to get the works required done but that cannot be done alone. The State needs to provide some support to this community. It will have a major consequence with respect to childcare, sport and a massive amount of voluntary activity that takes place in the centre. A solution must be provided by the State side to ensure the community centre can remain open. There is a voluntary board in place and the option facing it is to secure the funding to rectify what is required or else the centre will be closed. That will leave a major vacuum within the community. It will leave a vacuum for many parents who will not have a place for their children to attend while they are at work but also for many volunteer groups which use the facility in the evening. I would appreciate any support or guidance the Minister of State could give on the matter.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Hartstown community centre has served the community of Hartstown and surrounding areas for the past 30 years. The community centre has suddenly found that there is a real threat to the continued provision of a wide range of services from preschool to crèche to sports services, dance classes and activities for retired people and other local people.

The building, which I understand is owned by the local Catholic Church on behalf of the St. Laurence O’Toole trust, has received an insurance inspection that has declared that urgent remedial works are required in respect of key elements of the building. The cost of the amending works to the building, which include upgrading fire safety, windows and doors and other elements of the building, has been estimated to cost initially somewhere around €100,000 minimum. Other works as yet to be described in detail may add significantly to that cost.

This is a centre that is used by hundreds of people in Dublin 15. The community has organised a very large public meeting to declare its support for fundraising but the community cannot do that on its own. This is one of the communities that was hardest hit by the collapse of the building industry in Ireland. Many family members lost employment at the time. Happily, that situation has changed. However, the community has a limited capacity to fundraise for all the money required.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputies for raising this important matter. As we all know, community centres are a cornerstone of many communities around the country. They provide a vital function, bringing together members of the community for social, educational and informational purposes. We need community centres open and working well in communities because they help tie all communities together, particularly new, developing communities. As Members of this House, we see on a daily basis the benefits of a strong community centre for a local community.

My colleague, the Minister for Community and Rural Development, supports such important initiatives through, for example, the community enhancement programme, which provides small capital grants to community groups in this area. It is not a direct funding line from my Department.

Importantly, facilities where people gather need to be fire safe. That is probably the issue causing the difficulty in this community centre. I understand that issues in that regard have arisen in respect of the community centre in Hartstown and that Hartstown community centre is doing everything within its power to address these and work through those requirements.

Statutory responsibility for safety is assigned to the person having control of a building, who is required to take reasonable measures to guard against the outbreak of fire and to ensure the safety of persons in the event of fire. That would include ensuring that all necessary fire prevention measures are in place.

To meet their duties, operators of buildings, in general, should have arrangements in place to prevent fires occurring through control of ignition sources, such as electrical equipment, and regular removal of combustible waste. Additionally, early warning in the event of fire is important, along with arrangements to ensure safe evacuation of occupants, including those who may require assistance, such as the very young or elderly people.

Buildings need to be maintained in good condition, particularly in terms of fire protection equipment therein, such as fire detection and alarm systems, emergency lighting, fire-resisting doorsets, and the fabric of the building. Regular fire drills should be arranged to ensure that people know what to do in the event of fire.

Record keeping in respect of all of these matters assists those having control of premises in ensuring, and demonstrating, that they are meeting their statutory duties.

The provision of a fire service in its functional area is a statutory function of individual fire authorities under section 10 of the Fire Services Acts 1981 and 2003. A fire authority may give advice on fire safety to the owner or occupier of any premises or to any person having control over any premises. If it has not happened already, it may be useful to the community centre to engage with Dublin Fire Brigade on the issues that have arisen. We have found that they engage on these issues with many individuals in dwellings, apartment blocks or community centres are proactive in working with them on that in terms the solutions and what has to be done.

I am aware that the funding is an issue. Everyone says the State has to be involved in that. While our Department is responsible for local authorities in respect of fire safety, we do not have the funding mechanism to address this issue.

I will bring it to the attention of the Minister for Rural and Community Development to see if there is any way the State can help. I note the point that the community is willing to raise funds but it seems the costs involved will be high.

Ruth Coppinger (Dublin West, Solidarity)
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Now that we rightly have much more stringent fire safety regulations, surely this is an issue for other community facilities and public buildings? I expect this will arise elsewhere and it will be necessary to establish a grant system to allow providers of such services to access funds to help make these buildings safer. Many of these community centres were built with prison labour and some do not seem to have proper plans. Hartstown community centre is not the only building of this nature in the area.

While I fully agree that the owner of the building is ultimately responsible, many community buildings are owned and run by councils, the church or private companies so there cannot be a hard and fast rule on assisting them. These facilities provide public and community services. I ask that the Taoiseach or the Minister convene a meeting of officials from the relevant Departments to see how assistance could be provided. I also appeal to Archbishop Diarmuid Martin to hand this facility over to the community in order that it can go forward with it.

Jack Chambers (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State referred to compliance with fire safety regulations and we all accept the need for such compliance. In this case, it is the reason for the crisis because the community centre must get funding or it will close its doors. Closure would have catastrophic consequences for the area in terms of childcare, sporting and community facilities. As Deputy Coppinger noted, the complicated ownership presents a difficulty. The board of the community centre was told that no financial assistance will be provided by the technical owner of the centre. This is, to all intents, a completely voluntary effort and there is no private gain. The State should provide a safety net for so many important services. I would appreciate if the Minister for Rural and Community Development would meet Deputy Coppinger, Deputy Burton and me, and perhaps also the Taoiseach, to find a funding mechanism that would avoid so many important services in our community falling off a cliff edge.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Hartstown community centre has been supported by years of voluntary community effort by a fantastic group of people. I want the Minister of State to declare that the Government will stand by the people of Hartstown and the area's community centre and provide it with the resources it desperately needs. The active crèche and preschool facility, as well as a separate Montessori school, serve more than 100 young children each day. I am mindful that the community centre is in the Taoiseach's constituency. Has the Minister of State spoken to the Taoiseach about this? We all agree with the Minister of State's comments about fire regulations but that does not solve the issue. We want him to tell us how we can access Government funding to help this community in its valiant efforts.

I raised this issue with the Minister for Rural and Community Development, Deputy Ring, in a parliamentary question about a week and a half ago. I can make the answer he gave available to the Minister of State. I agree with the proposal that we meet the Minister and Minister of State. However, the Minister referred us to Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government because his funds come through the mechanism of the local authority committees on development. The Minister of State and the Government must help this community in its hour of need.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the three Deputies for raising this issue. I sense its importance. Deputies have noted, probably with some frustration, that my answer focused specifically on fire safety but, as the issue that falls within my remit, I was asked to address it. It is a serious issue. I am conscious that other centres and buildings may face the same issues.

I must be clear on the ownership and control of the building. Somebody has to be responsible for it and this must be established and clear for fire purposes or otherwise. Many community centres are owned by the State and I understand that in this case ownership is complicated. For the fire authority to undertake its work, there must be a clear line in respect of who owns the building and who is responsible. Otherwise, further difficulties will arise.

My Department does not fund the provision or renovation of community centres. Deputy Burton knows, having been a Minister, that I cannot just rock up in the House with a chequebook. While I wish I could do so, that is not how it works. I do not know whether any of the Deputies has engaged with the local authority or any other agency on applications or if the centre itself has done as this would not have gone through my Department. I do not have a chequebook and I cannot announce funding. However, I will be happy to raise the matter with other Ministers to see if we can help.

The Department for Rural and Community Development has a scheme called the community enhancement programme which was established in 2018 to replace the recast RAPID programme. Funding is also provided under the community facilities scheme. Last year, the scheme provided €18 million for projects. The community enhancement programme is administered through the local community development committee but is funded through the Department of Rural and Community Development. Each local authority is involved, which is why I asked the Deputies whether they had engaged with the local authority on the matter. I understand the closing date for applications to the scheme has passed for this year but there may be some way that, with the involvement of that community development committee, we could find a way to have an application submitted. I will try to help and I will raise the matter with the appropriate persons.