Dáil debates

Tuesday, 18 June 2019

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Treatment of Former Garda

6:45 pm

Photo of Kate O'ConnellKate O'Connell (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

One would have had to be made of stone not to have been moved by the bravery and resilience of Majella Moynihan as she told her story at the weekend on national radio. We are all aware of the legacy of cruelty of this State when it comes to the treatment of women. Majella was the perfect example of all things that Ireland looked down on.

Reared in an industrial school, pregnant out of wedlock and female, she was a veritable scarecrow, crucified for her perceived sins and displayed as a warning to others. She could not have been any more inferior to her superiors. What was permitted to be done to her by organs of this State, aided and abetted by the church and its acolytes, is a shame on us all. This woman had her life, reputation and son taken from her. She is due an official State apology, her full pension and some form of an attempt at compensation for all the pain and suffering that was visited upon her. This is the least that Majella Moynihan deserves.

6:55 pm

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Which one of us who is a parent does not treasure moments such as a first smile, word, step or day at school, the big and little moments, which can never be recovered for either Majella Moynihan or her son, David? Even when I spoke to her earlier today, she reiterated that the totality of what happened ruined her life. I particularly want to compliment RTÉ and the "Documentary on One", which was a powerful piece of public service broadcasting. While Deputies O'Connell and Clare Daly and I all knew the programme was being worked on, I do not think any of us expected that it would get the attention that it did, even though we had individually met Majella and heard her harrowing and powerful story. She has been seeking her papers since 2005. She hoped, since her premature retirement, that one of the seven subsequent Garda Commissioners would offer her an apology. It is only now that her story has emerged so powerfully in the public arena that the response has changed. How many more stories will remain hidden? Are there others who have been treated so abysmally? If so, it should not and must not take such bravery and public exposure to put such a wrong right.

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I commend Majella Moynihan and the makers of the documentary for reminding the people of this country of what a cruel and intolerant place it was for women who had children outside of marriage. This problem was not unique to Ireland but it was especially acute here, as we have seen from the Magdalen laundries and other tragic stories. We need to recognise that it is not enough for Member of this House to display our empathy and sympathy for Majella Moynihan. We are policymakers and the Minister is in government. We need to take steps which are active and realistic with regard to what we can do to face up to the State's responsibility to Ms Moynihan and our liability to her. One practical step that could be taken is in respect of her pension. In effect, Ms Moynihan was constructively dismissed from An Garda Síochána. She was shunned and forced out of the force. As well as apologising to her, the State should take some tangible steps to ensure that we compensate her for the damage and distress caused to her by the organs of the State. She and the women of Ireland are owed that. It was unfortunately the case that when a child was born outside of wedlock the woman was treated differently from the man. There are many reasons for the discrimination and shameful treatment that was meted out to women but two of them were unquestionably sexism and religion. Other factors included inheritance, class and snobbery, but sexism and religion were two main factors.

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputies for raising this important matter in the House. I very much welcome the swift action taken by the Garda Commissioner, Drew Harris, to apologise for the treatment of Ms Majella Moynihan and the impact it has had on her life since when he became aware of her case on Saturday. I have echoed this apology in a brief statement which I released over the weekend and I intend to apologise to Ms Moynihan in person when I meet her in the coming days. As Minister for Justice and Equality, I sincerely regret the appalling ordeal that Ms Moynihan faced as a young Garda member. The treatment she has described was simply wrong on every level. It is shocking. As a young garda, she should have been able to expect that the Garda organisation would offer her support at a time when she most needed support and welfare. It is profoundly disappointing that she did not receive that support and that, on the contrary, she feels she was treated harshly by the Garda organisation.

For many decades, Ireland was a country that was highly intolerant of difference. Women suffered particularly, as did members of the LGBTI community, those with disabilities and members of other minorities. Society then functioned in a way that would be regarded as completely unacceptable by our standards today. Listening to former Garda Moynihan being interviewed over the last few days, I recalled the tireless campaigning of people like my former colleague, the late Nuala Fennell, in the 1970s and 1980s, in particular, her advocacy for single mothers. Nuala Fennell and a small group of others worked tirelessly to help to make this country a kinder, more compassionate and tolerant society. We still have some distance to go but, thankfully, Ireland today, more than at any other time in our past, is more tolerant, more understanding and less autocratic.

The European Union's legal framework means that the protections under the law that are now in place, not just in the Garda Síochána but in all State organisations and private companies, would not allow these events to happen today. However, that is not to say that it was acceptable that they happened in the past or to deny the enormous pain of many people, including former Garda Moynihan. Various issues have been raised over the past few days in relation to this matter, including the question, as raised by Deputy O'Callaghan, of Ms Moynihan’s pension. I expect this issue to be examined and discussed when Ms Moynihan meets the Garda Commissioner. I do not intend to pre-empt that discussion; I simply caution that the situation is a complex one. These are issues that can and will be addressed over the next while.

Photo of Kate O'ConnellKate O'Connell (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I hope I am not misquoting the Minister when I say that he said that Ms Moynihan feels she was treated badly. I believe there is not a person in Ireland who thinks that she was treated in any way other than badly. It is certainly not acceptable by our standards today. I have said before that it is important for Members of this House to check our privilege on occasion, not the privilege of being here and elected to this great House, but of being born healthy and able-bodied to parents who either raised us themselves or gave us the opportunity to be raised by others. Majella Moynihan is a prime example of somebody who was victimised in our society. She had nobody to look out for her and the people in charge knew that. She was hung out for people to see what might happen to them if they behaved in a certain way.

We had a great moment in this country a year ago when eighth amendment was repealed but anybody in this House who thinks that happened in isolation and did not have repercussions and ramifications throughout the society which spawned it is wrong. We had a great moment here last year but what happened to Majella Moynihan symbolises all that was wrong with the church and State, with, in this case, Garda involvement. We cannot put a black mark over our history and block it out because it feeds our future. It is only by examining it that we can identify the true knock-on effects of certain behaviours on society today.

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I would appreciate an answer to my question on when the Minister or his predecessor knew about this case. It is important that the Garda Commissioner also answers that question. I have spoken to Majella Moynihan and she has been seeking her papers and quietly seeking an apology since 2005. It is only now that the case has come into the public arena that it is getting the attention it deserves.

There is also the question of files that have gone missing. It is important that the matter is addressed because it is not that long ago since Ms Moynihan received a redacted version of the files, so we are not talking about files that have not been seen since 1990, they were in somebody's hands not that long ago. She could have expected to have a very good career in the Garda. That is evident from some of the things that were said about her at the time concerning her ability as a garda. That is what she should have been judged on, and that is where the fault lies; she was judged on something other than her ability to do the job, and to do it superbly.

7:05 pm

Photo of Jim O'CallaghanJim O'Callaghan (Dublin Bay South, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister said that the protections that exist in the law today would not allow the events to happen to Majella Moynihan if they occurred today. However, we must remember that back in 1984 she had a constitutional right of equality and that was infringed back in 1984. She was discriminated against on the grounds of her gender and on the grounds of her marital status. I know that statutory provisions in respect of those equalities were introduced much later than that, but she had a constitutional right to equality back in 1984. That is the reason I say to the Minister that the State has a liability in respect of this woman. I hope that we are not now going to force or permit her to have to go to court in order to try to vindicate a liability that exists on the part of the State and to vindicate her rights. I ask the Minister to intervene. I welcome the fact that he is going to meet Ms Moynihan. I also welcome the fact that he has apologised to her. I know that he will apologise to her in person on behalf of the State. As I said to the Minister, he is different from other people; he has power and he is a representative of the justice Ministry in this country. When he meets Ms Moynihan I ask that he would come up with some practical and real proposals that will have the effect of not forcing this woman to have to initiate court proceedings.

Photo of Kate O'ConnellKate O'Connell (Dublin Bay South, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I wish to correct the Minister as it was me who raised in the Chamber the pension being backdated not Deputy O'Callaghan.

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

You are in this House a long time, Acting Chairman, and in this House over the years we have dealt with many sensitive and tragic personal cases. Deputies will appreciate that as Minister I have an obligation to respect the privacy of individuals as much as possible. As I outlined, I hope to meet with Ms Moynihan, along with the Garda Commissioner in the coming days. A number of important issues have been raised by Deputies O'Callaghan, O'Connell and Catherine Murphy. In response to Deputy Catherine Murphy, it is possible that there are other cases, given the nature of Irish society over so many decades. At this point women have been serving as full members of An Garda Síochána for 60 years. Currently, I am not aware of any specific cases that are similar to that of Ms Moynihan's case but, undoubtedly, other cases may emerge. If Deputy Catherine Murphy or any other Deputy has information I would be happy to hear from them, not only in respect of An Garda Síochána but perhaps right across the public service because, sadly, for far too long single mothers and many others who did not appear to conform to the dominant mores of the time suffered severe social stigma in Ireland in a way that we would consider to be utterly unacceptable and abhorrent in today's world. Both Commissioner Harris and I acknowledged the courage and bravery of Ms Majella Moynihan in coming forward in the manner in which she did. We stand ready to provide whatever support we can in the circumstances. I look forward to meeting Majella Moynihan. In the meantime, I am in close contact with the Garda Commissioner and my hope is that the meeting will take place in the coming days.