Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I understand that the Minister of State, Deputy Canney, will be taking this matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Bruton.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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An Post's decision, which came out of the blue, to move the post office from Liberty Square in Thurles to the shopping centre on the edge of the town was met with shock and disgust by the public, with thousands coming out onto the streets to protest, and by business people who are utterly dismayed by a Government and a company that would make such a decision, given the loyalty that has been shown to the service provider for many decades. I have represented Thurles since entering politics. In that time, I have never seen anger such as that expressed in respect of this decision. A number of years ago, the sorting office was placed outside the town. It was understood that the post office in the town would be done up as a result. That has not happened.

Financially, this decision does not make sense. Why move to a shopping centre where there is less footfall? Why pay rent, rates and other charges on top of a capital cost when all An Post has in the town centre now is a capital outlay for a building that it owns? This move is contrary to Government policy. As a former Minister, I can tell the House that a State agency contravening Government policy is a serious matter. The Minister, as an advocate of Project Ireland 2040 who has spoken about it with great fanfare, is aware that town centres are to be renewed. How can he say that An Post is adhering to Government policy if it moves this facility out of the town centre, which the Government, through Tipperary County Council, is about to spend over €6 million doing up? Financially, what is happening does not make sense. The board cannot stand over the decision and the board members' reputations will be damaged by a decision that is financially inept. It is up to the Minister and his Department to take this issue on board and change the decision for the good of the people of Thurles.

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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An Post's proposal to move the Thurles post office from Liberty Square is wrong. We have an €8 million plan to revitalise the square, which is being spearheaded by Tipperary County Council. That plan adheres to Government policy, which is supported by the Dáil, on regenerating rural town centres. It is a disgrace that the management of a State-owned company like An Post is acting in direct conflict with a national strategy that is investing large amounts of taxpayers' money in rural town centres. There is a significant question mark over An Post's reasons for wanting to make this move. In all of its press releases, it has failed to give a credible financial reason for the proposal. These facts require the Minister to change his stance on the issue. He must engage in a meaningful way with the elected representatives of the people of my home town of Thurles. He must immediately engage with An Post and instruct it to review its decision, which does not add up.

I have offered a solution. A Thurles businessman is willing to purchase the listed building, renovate it to the highest standard and lease it back to An Post. However, An Post has done everything in its power to ignore this solution.

The Minister of State should be assured that the people of Thurles will not let this issue go. If the Minister cannot be convinced to force An Post to review its decision, I intend to get to the bottom of the reasons for the move. The Dáil has a committee structure in place, and I will use every means possible to get An Post to come to account. This decision makes no financial sense, the people of Thurles do not want it and it is contrary to Government policy.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this important matter. Along with my colleagues, I am disappointed that the Minister, Deputy Bruton, is not present. He is in hiding. The Minister of State is newly reappointed. I mean nothing personal, but sending him in here with a script is a disgrace. The Minister is hiding behind the board of An Post.

This is a reckless decision. The people of Thurles have supported the post office's current location in Liberty Square for decades. The House has heard about the sorting office moving out with a view to reinvigorating the post office. There is something tangy about this. It is not in line with Government policy, so An Post cannot hide behind that. The company has stated that this is one of its few remaining profitable post offices. Why will the Government not tackle the shocking waste in the GPO, which is grossly overstaffed and so on? Why pick on rural towns? Why pick on rural Tipperary, which has already lost six post offices this year? Thankfully, a postmistress gave up her redundancy package in order to try to retain the service for local people.

This decision is outrageous and the people of Thurles will not accept it. They have set up a hard-working, dedicated committee of business people and community activists who look after people from the cradle to the grave. Will the Government please reconsider its position? The Minister cannot keep hiding. The committee will hunt him down. Fine Gael election candidates are running around the county, yet the Thurles committee cannot get the Minister or An Post's action committee to meet it or Deputies from Tipperary. When we met the company last week, we were treated with disdain by Mr. McRedmond and others from An Post. It was all waffle. There is no business sense or economic reasoning behind this decision. Above all, it is a slap in the face of muintir Dhúrlas Éile - the proud people of Thurles, founding location of the GAA.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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I thank the Deputies for airing this issue. The Minister is not available, so I am taking this matter on his behalf.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Cá bhfuil sé?

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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The Deputy can take that up with him.

The Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment has responsibility for the postal sector, including the governance of An Post. However, it is important to remember that An Post is a commercial State body with its own board. Decisions relating to the post office network are an operational matter for An Post directly.

The environment in which the post office operates is changing and the network needs to change with it in order to thrive, particularly given the move to digital transactions. These changes are impacting on the revenue being generated by the network as a whole. In the face of serious declines in the volume of mail and post office business, An Post faced growing losses and has had to undertake a major restructuring of its business to continue to be able to provide its services. There is a widespread acceptance that the post office network requires modernisation to build, maintain and protect a service that meets the needs of communities across the country.

An Post's renewed vision for the post office network centres on the availability of new services in a modernised, revitalised network. In this context, An Post has confirmed its move to a new flagship post office in the Thurles shopping centre and the closure of its Liberty Square premises. The move comes as part of An Post's effort to transform the post office network and to invest in improved facilities for customers in locations with high footfalls. Thurles will become one of the first towns in the country to host the new post office design, which is intended to improve the service offering for post office users and attract a new generation of customers.

It is important to acknowledge that the move has understandably caused upset in Thurles, as the post office has been in situin Liberty Square for many years and is part of the fabric of the square.

However, delivery of An Post’s ambitious plans for the post office network requires renewal of the physical infrastructure of the network and the move is part of this process. I understand that the CEO of An Post and company officials have met with Deputies and local representatives in recent weeks to hear the perspective of the local community and to discuss the issues raised due to the relocation of the post office from Liberty Square to Thurles Shopping Centre. An Post has advised that the new office will be in line with the company’s transformation programme, offering a new-look retail offering for customers, with a move away from old-style post office counter layout. This is driven by An Post’s move to offer new services and products, including financial services, to customers, and integrating its growing e-commerce business. The new layout will include dedicated customer areas, parcel lockers and self-service options. An Post has also indicated that any plan to revamp the Liberty Square premises would be hampered by the condition of the three-storey listed building, the lack of available development space and the prohibitive cost of overcoming either of these obstacles. Furthermore, the building has been the subject of repeated complaints over accessibility and excessive queuing caused by the lack of space in the office. Given the challenges it is facing, the company needs to pursue an ambitious agenda across its various business areas, and significant change and new business models are likely to be implemented in the coming years.

The willingness of the public to use the service the post office provides is essential for the survival of the network. Investment of €50 million in the network by An Post is based on encouraging communities to use the enhanced services that their local post office will provide through a modernised network. The company is continuing to make good progress in implementing its strategic plan, which will see a range of developments across the mail and retail businesses. A refreshed and modernised An Post brand was launched in recent weeks, alongside a new financial services proposition, An Post Money, and a new business-to-business brand, An Post eCommerce Solutions. It is Government policy that An Post remains a strong, viable company in a position to provide a high-quality, nationwide postal service and that it maintains a nationwide customer focused network of post offices in the community. The Government remains fully committed to a sustainable post office network, which is an important piece of economic and social infrastructure for both rural and urban areas.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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We have heard all this before. I accept that the Minister of State is only standing in for the Minister but his reply was frankly rubbish. I have spoken to Mr. McRedmond and the chairman, Mr. Divilly. Their credibility is on the line. The decision is symbolic, An Post is going against Government policy, and the finances of the decision just do not work, as I have outlined. It makes no sense and the taxpayer is losing big time - hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of euro. The real issue is that An Post made a bad decision and cannot back down. It does not want to set a precedent but it did the same in Ballinskelligs, County Kerry. It was going to close that post office but there was an independent review, it reconsidered the matter, and - holy smoke - the post office is still open. I will visit it this weekend because it is run by my niece, the youngest postmistress in Ireland, who is 22 years of age. An Post got that decision wrong, considered what the community and local representatives said, and it reversed the decision.

It must do the same in the case of the post office in question. I call on Deputy Lowry, Fine Gael representatives and everyone else who supports the Government to ensure that An Post does the same in Thurles as it did in Ballinskelligs.

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State said the viability of the post office depends on the people using the service and I fully agree. The reality, however, is that people in Thurles do not want the post office moved to the shopping centre and will refuse to use it there. The car park is crammed and the shopping centre is difficult to access, especially for elderly people.

The Minister of State noted that An Post is a commercial, semi-State body, which I fully accept, but it made a decision that is not commercially viable and does not stand up. It complains the post office building and square are in bad condition, which they are but the responsibility rests on one company only, namely, An Post. Given that no money has been spent on the building for 40 years, how would a listed building of that age not be in bad condition?

On the current site's ability to provide facilities, there is 30% more foot space than in the premises in the shopping centre. The size is suitable and all it needs is a refurbishment. There can be all the necessary modern infrastructure in the post office on the square. If the move happens, the people will react by not trading with the post office at its new premises.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I concur with what has been said. The Minister of State has used many terms such as "flagship", "customer service" and "customer focused", but the Government does not give a hoot about the customers. It is trading recklessly, as I have stated on several occasions. We in the Rural Independent Group tabled a motion, which was passed comfortably, that supported introducing community banking services at An Post. Why has the Government not done that? It is stripping services. Last week, the CEO of An Post stated the Government is reducing social welfare and refusing to provide other services. It is one untruth and falsehood after the other. Ní neart go cur le chéile.

I urge the people of Thurles and the surrounding districts not to make the move, if the Government continues with it, and to keep their businesses in the square. While I hate division and I said, "Ní neart go cur le chéile", I encourage them to speak to the people in charge of the shopping centre. There are no big brand names. The small ratepayers - na siopaí beaga, na daoine beaga - want the service to be in the square and we support them in that regard. They should tell the people in the shopping centre that they do not want to move out there, that they will not move out there, and that they will not trade there. That might put a smile on the other side of their face. It is wrong and An Post is trading recklessly. It took accountants to force another board to resign today for trading recklessly. The Government will be found out yet. It is hiding, as is the Minister. He can keep hiding but he has nowhere to run.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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To respond to Deputy Lowry, I will convey the feelings of the Deputies to the Minister. Deputy Kelly stated the decision in Ballinskelligs was reversed. An Post can change its mind if it finds that something is wrong. Deputy Mattie McGrath mentioned community banking in post offices. As I stated, An Post Money, which is a financial service, and An Post eCommerce Solutions, which is a business-to-business service, have been introduced. They are in place and in operation.

The question one might ask is why move premises and why not refurbish the existing premises. An Post has indicated that any plan to revamp the Liberty Square premises will be hampered by the condition of the three-storey listed property, the lack of available development space and the prohibitive cost of overcoming either of these obstacles. The building has also been subject to repeated complaints over accessibility and excessive queuing caused by the lack of space in the office. I am not from the area and I do not know the situation but I presume that the Deputies have received complaints in that regard.

I understand that the new premises is in Thurles Shopping Centre, which contains a number of retailers. There is a footfall of 55,000 and a multistorey car park with large volumes of available space, and it is located within 500 m of the existing branch office. Is that correct?

Jackie Cahill (Tipperary, Fianna Fail)
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All the Minister of State's facts are wrong.

Seán Canney (Galway East, Independent)
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That information was provided by An Post.