Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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The issue I am raising today concerns wheelchair accessibility on Bus Éireann route 480 between Donegal and Sligo towns, which includes access to Institute of Technology Sligo. This has been raised particularly by a lady living in Ballyshannon, Victoria Matthews, who has protested and campaigned very hard on this. She is a wheelchair user. She intends to do a course in the institute of technology in Sligo and there is no public transport to bring her there because there is no wheelchair accessibility on the bus serving that route.

When she started this campaign, many others in similar situations in many parts of the country raised the issue and there have been articles about this issue in The Irish Timesand other newspapers. When we talk to people in Bus Éireann the answer we get is that it is moving toward a situation where transport will be accessible to all. To do that properly it needs, in as many places as possible, particularly relatively short routes, such as the one from Donegal to Sligo, to use the buses with low access. When the bus pulls in a short ramp comes out and the person with the wheelchair is on the bus very quickly. That is the model we need to see in most places. Bus Éireann in Sligo tells me it has several buses doing that but they are not allocated to that route and it says it does not allocate the buses to the routes, that is done by the National Transport Authority, NTA. That is a disconnect that needs to be resolved.

I am sure the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport has a written reply telling me about all the places where there is public transport that is accessible to all. There are many routes in rural Ireland like this one, where people in wheelchairs and people who have difficulties and disabilities want to access public transport, not just from an equality point of view but also because it would enhance their lives and give them a sense of a future by doing courses in college, as this lady wants to do, or employment opportunities they may want to take up but that they do not even consider because travel to those places is closed off as there is not proper access on the bus routes.

I look forward to the Minister's reply. Vicky Matthews is starting this course at the end of next September. We need to see fully wheelchair-accessible transport in place between Donegal town and Sligo IT, and Sligo town, on that route 480 before then. I appeal to the Minister to make that happen.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I am aware of the campaign and the case to which he is referring. Whereas we have concentrated and done an enormous amount for people with disabilities and there is no doubt about that, it is shown in the figures and the results, we cannot do everything and I cannot intervene in a specific case or route to satisfy one person, however awful their hardship. That is not my role. I will, however, certainly pass on what the Deputy says about that case to the NTA.

What we have done for disabilities in transport, what the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport has done and what people such as Senator Dolan and the Minister of State with special responsibility for disabilities, Deputy Finian McGrath, as well as others in this House who are involved, have done has involved making a great deal of progress but it is slow enough progress. When a Deputy brings an impeccable and unanswerable case like that before the House, we will do everything we possibly can to see that as soon as possible, the Deputy will not be able to come into the House with cases like that and nor will any other Deputy. There are multiple such cases around the country. I know the Deputy is right about that because certain coaches are not fully wheelchair accessible but we are moving as fast as we can in that direction. The Deputy's case, which is compelling, will be conveyed to the NTA and I will suggest that it should spur it on to further efforts to make sure the necessary measures are taken countrywide, which we aim to take as soon as possible.

I am not involved in the day to day operations of public transport. This is a very good and suitable forum for the Deputy to bring up the case but he would not expect me to say that I will move and do something with the 480 route between Donegal town and Sligo, including access to Sligo Institute of Technology, this evening. It is not something which is either within my power or would be possible for me to do. What the Deputy has done is to highlight the case which is there, as well as others, who are undoubtedly in the same boat. I have explained to the House previously that under the Dublin Transport Authority Act 2008, the NTA has statutory responsibility for promoting the development of an integrated, accessible public transport network.

In addition, the NTA has responsibility for the purchase of bus and coach fleets required by Bus Éireann to which the Deputy referred, Dublin Bus, Go Ahead and other operators which operate subsidised public service obligation, PSO bus services on behalf of the NTA. The NTA has advised that Dublin Bus and Go Ahead fleets are fully wheelchair-accessible by ramp. All urban services operated by Bus Éireann are also fully wheelchair-accessible by ramp. However, and the Deputy obviously wishes to highlight this, Bus Éireann's regional services are primarily operated using high-floor coaches, which are wheelchair-accessible by lift. In practice, lifts are less flexible than ramps as they require the removal of seating in order to accommodate passengers in wheelchairs. I am advised that for that reason, passengers need to give Bus Éireann advance notice of their intention to travel. In addition, a large flat area of adjacent footpath is required to operate the lift, typically 3 m wide and 3.5 m in depth. According to the NTA, in many towns and villages it is extremely challenging to achieve the necessary footpath dimensions for the vehicle lift to function. Solutions such as relocating the bus stop to an alternative location may be necessary, but this can give rise to additional problems in that the alternative stop location may not suit other users. In other cases, land or property acquisition may be required to obtain the necessary space, potentially requiring the exercise of compulsory acquisition powers to acquire the relevant lands.

Martin Kenny (Sligo-Leitrim, Sinn Fein)
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I understand that while the Minister cannot specifically deal with this case I would like to broaden the issue out. I met Vicky and other wheelchair users in Ballyshannon in recent weeks and they told me that if, for instance, they want to go to Dublin Airport on the bus, they can use a bus that has a lift to get onto the bus. However, they feel this is most inappropriate because it really emphasises their difference in society because the bus has to stop and a huge area of footpath is taken up after which a ramp comes out and comes down. As one of them said, it is like loading cargo. It takes almost ten minutes for them to get loaded onto the bus. Then if it is a long bus trip in particular, very few of them use it but try to get a train instead because at least on a train, there are toilet facilities, which do not exist on the bus. The bus does not stop and if it does stop somewhere where they want to use the toilet, it is a siege and a half to get off the bus and get back on again.

There really needs to be some joined-up thinking on this issue. The Minister's reference to the National Transport Authority in respect of that is well and good but high-floor buses basically do not work for people in wheelchairs or for people with disabilities in general. I looked at that bus that was being used in Donegal. It was parked in the bus station in Ballyshannon on one of the days we were visiting the town. I counted six steps to get up to the level of the bus. Even if one takes away the person in the wheelchair, there is the elderly person and it is a serious issue for older or more frail people who have difficulty walking or using steps. What we need to do is to quickly move to a situation where low-access buses are used in as many places as possible. Particularly in the case of long journeys, if rail transport can be used and is more accessible, we need to make sure there are links to such transport for people with disabilities. In some cases, one will be talking about going back to trying to have a taxi available to bring people to college and so on.

In this particular case, there is a solution. There are buses based in Sligo that have low access and if those buses are transferred onto this route, this issue can be solved. I appreciate it is not the Minister's job to direct the National Transport Authority but at the same time, I am sure he could have a conversation with it, without directing it.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Hopefully, the NTA hears what the Deputy is saying.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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So can the Deputy. I am sure the NTA would be as accessible to him as it is to me. I agree with everything the Deputy says. I will not be content until we have got a situation where those in wheelchairs can travel as easily as we can and we are nowhere near that situation yet. I am not saying anything in a mood of self-satisfaction but hopefully we are moving in that direction. We have acknowledged it with additional funds and fast moves in the direction of greater accessibility but it is not good enough yet.

Let me update the Deputy with the situation as it is now. The NTA's objective is to upgrade bus stops, where possible, to ensure that all main towns have at least one wheelchair lift-accessible bus stop in each direction. This programme is at an early stage. The NTA advised that plans are in progress for the installation of wheelchair-accessible stops at Ballyshannon and Sligo bus stations. However, according to the NTA, it is likely to be 2020 or 2021 before those works are completed. The NTA is aware that high floor single deck coaches do not offer a good customer experience to wheelchair users, which is what the Deputy referred to. While there is currently no viable alternative to the use of these vehicles on longer distance services, the NTA, along with Bus Éireann, is implementing a change in its fleet strategy for shorter regional commuter services. In future, an increasing number of these services will be operated by low entry coach-style vehicles, rather than high-floor coaches. The NTA is in the process of procuring these vehicles, which are equipped with a ramp at the entrance door suitable for the mobility impaired and a dedicated wheelchair space within a low floor area in the front half of the vehicle.

In the normal course of events, operators are responsible for determining the allocation of bus fleet to individual bus routes. From a policy perspective, I advised the House recently that one of my priorities is to complete a review of existing public transport policy as committed to under A Programme for a Partnership Government. This review is a significant and substantial resource commitment and my Department has commenced and substantially completed the research and analysis required. I urge everyone, including Members of the Oireachtas, to take the opportunity to contribute to the public consultation and outline their views on all aspects of public transport policy, including in relation to accessible public transport.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the Minister taking the next matter?

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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No.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will suspend the House for five minutes in view of the absence of any Minister to take any business.