Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to raise this important matter and I thank the Minister for attending in person to hear what I have to say. Tonight I raise the issue of the plight of two female employees of the University of Limerick, who have spent the last number of years on half pay and who are now suspended and in receipt of social welfare payments. These are dedicated, hard-working and courageous women who performed their duties in an exemplary manner. One might well ask what nefarious crime they committed to find themselves in this unfortunate situation? They blew the whistle on blatant wrongdoing and exposed wasteful, wrongful and wanton expenditure of taxpayers' money.

They have been vindicated by a number of independent reports, they have been vindicated by the Comptroller and Auditor General and, importantly and perhaps astonishingly, they have been vindicated by their employer. On 23 November 2017 and on 15 March 2018, the University of Limerick acknowledged that their suspension between 2015 and 2017 was wrong. It went on to apologise for describing their complaint as malicious. Last year the university wrote to these employees thanking them for bringing important matters to the attention of the university and recognising their courage in doing so, courage which it said was greatly valued. Despite this, they are still suspended and are now, as I have said, reliant on the tender mercies of the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. Apparently the university is prepared to apologise to them privately. It should apologise to them publicly.

When they were vindicated, the Department or the Higher Education Authority, HEA, organised a mediation process to get them back to work. Mr. Kieran Mulvey was appointed as the mediator. They only had one meeting with him and he told them he was delegating the matter to a consultant, Mr. Sean O'Driscoll. On various occasions they were promised by the university that a transition process would be put in place whereby they would be able to take a course in the university, for which the university would pay, while at the same time they would be gradually reintroduced to work. Of course, they would not be sent back to the finance department, where I personally know that there is a great deal of hostility towards them. It would not be possible for them to go back to the finance department. Suddenly, in July last year the university unilaterally withdrew these promises and directed them to go back to the finance department, giving them literally no choice. It was the modern version of Cromwell's injunction to the dispossessed Irish, to hell or to Connacht. It was to hell or to the finance department. The Minister should believe me that it would be hell for these people to go back to the finance department. I know what I am talking about because I have represented that constituency for many years and know all the various actors in this particular drama.

This issue brings into question the efficacy of the whole whistleblowing system. It is fatally flawed if two genuine whistleblowers can end up being treated in this fashion. I also remind the House that the University of Limerick recently conferred an honorary degree on Ms Vicky Phelan for having the courage to tell the truth and to do the State some service. The attitude of the university to its own employees who have also told the truth and done the State some service is radically different. This is intolerable and unacceptable. It makes a mockery of the whistleblowing process for which the Government claims so much kudos for introducing. What action does the Department or the HEA intend to take in respect of the plight of these women?

Joe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta fá choinne an tseans labhairt ar an ábhar seo. I thank the Deputy for giving me an opportunity to speak on this issue publicly. I know his county colleague, Senator Maria Byrne, and his party colleague, Deputy Michael McGrath, have also raised this issue in these Chambers. By way of background, the Deputy will be aware that the Protected Disclosures Act 2014 provides a detailed and comprehensive legal framework to allow any worker who is penalised for making a protected disclosure to secure redress. The Act is supplemented by the procedures that all public bodies are required to put in place under section 21 of the Act for the making of protected disclosures and for dealing with such disclosures. My Department operates within this legal framework when dealing with protected disclosures. The Deputy will also appreciate that there is a legal responsibility on my Department to protect the identity of any individual who makes a protected disclosure.

While respecting this legal responsibility, I am happy to provide the Deputy with an update on the specific issue raised today. In April 2015 the two staff members referred to by the Deputy made a protected disclosure to the then chief executive officer of the Higher Education Authority, HEA, and the Minister alleging workplace bullying and errors in practice and wrongdoing that they identified as part of their work in the finance department. Since that time, various review processes, including three independent reports, have been undertaken by the Department of Education and Skills, the Higher Education Authority and the University of Limerick in an effort to address the issues raised by the two staff members. The most recent of the reports, the Thorn report, published in November 2017, outlined a number of recommendations related to the allegations made by the two staff members, referred to as persons B and C in the report, and those of a number of other individuals who had come forward as part of the process. The university accepted in full the recommendations made in the Thorn report and has been liaising with the HEA and the Department on its progress in the implementation of the recommendations.

Arising from the Thorn report, the university embarked on a process of mediation, led by Mr. Kieran Mulvey, former head of the Workplace Relations Commission, with a number of the individuals referenced in the report in an effort to reach a satisfactory resolution of their issues. The two staff members referred to by the Deputy were included in this mediation process, during which the university engaged with them to facilitate their return to work. However, my understanding is that mutually acceptable employment positions could not be agreed to between the parties. The mediation process in respect of the two staff members was unable to reach a satisfactory outcome and has now ended.

The issue was most recently discussed at a meeting last week between the president of the University of Limerick and the Secretary General of the Department of Education and Skills. At the meeting the president outlined the position on the steps that had been taken to facilitate the return to work of the two persons referred to by the Deputy. The president also outlined the university’s desire to ensure the issue would be resolved as quickly as possible and requested the assistance of the Department in that regard. It is the view of the HEA and the Department that the issues raised by both persons have been fully investigated at this point. The one issue that remains to be resolved is the return to work of the two individuals concerned. It is primarily an employee-employer issue and I hope the university and the two individuals can agree on a mutually satisfactory outcome that will see these staff members return to the workplace as soon as possible. While this is an issue for the university to resolve, the Deputy has raised it here publicly, while Deputy Michael McGrath raised it previously, as has Senator Maria Byrne in conversation. I want to let the Deputy know that I have discussed it with my officials since it was raised. My Department is willing to assist the university in exploring potential opportunities to facilitate a return to the workplace of the two individuals in question.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister. If I am reading it correctly, the mediation process that was put in place is now over.

Joe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
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Yes.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has said the president of the University of Limerick has requested the assistance of the Department in bringing the issue to a satisfactory conclusion and that he agrees that his Department will be available. What practical steps can it take to bring it to a successful conclusion? We have a situation where people were wrongfully suspected. They are being forced to rely on social welfare payments. They did the State some service and we want to get them back to work. Does the Minister agree with me that it does not indicate good faith on the part of the university when it directed them to go back into the very section of the department where it was known that they would not be accepted, where they would encounter hostility and where it would be impossible for them to work? That indicates to me an intention or objective on the part of the university to essentially get rid of the two staff members. Would the Minister regard it as useful to meet them in order that they could tell him face to face about their experiences and in order that he could tell them what the Department intended to do to assist the process of getting them back to work? What can we expect to happen next?

Joe McHugh (Donegal, Fine Gael)
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To be helpful, essentially it is an employer-employee relationship issue. I am conscious of this, but I did say publicly that I would become involved to try to facilitate an outcome that would be satisfactory to all parties. The Secretary General has met the president of the university and I did emphasise the word "any". They are going to look at opportunities, but at the end of the day, we cannot force people to go into something in which they will not be happy. That would not yield an outcome that would be desirable. I acknowledge the Deputy's points about the service both individuals have provided. I am very conscious of this, but I am also conscious of my role not to become directly involved. I am confident that when the president and my officials sit down and the two individuals at the heart of the issue, there will be opportunities presented to them to find a solution. Without pre-empting the outcome, I take the Deputy's offer at face value to meet them. At this stage it might be a little early for me to do so because I am confident that the parties and the employee-employer relationship will be protected in finding a solution. I am confident that they will find a solution with which both individuals will be happy. I will certainly be happy to meet them after a solution is found.