John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, for attending. I am always grateful when he is here and in fairness to him he always makes an effort to respond to Topical Issue matters. The Minister is very familiar with this issue. As I speak, trade union representatives are on national radio again, having raised this issue on national radio this morning. I and one of my councillor colleagues are members of the Luas-Dublin Bus forum in Tallaght. There have been some incidents recently in which bus services have been withdrawn. This occurs in other parts of Dublin as well, thankfully not too frequently, but often enough to cause some degree of concern to people.

What we hear at the Luas-Dublin Bus forum, and what is often raised in the newspapers, are dramatic incidents culminating in serious assault that have occurred on Iarnród Éireann services several times. I am equally concerned by the low grade menacing level of anti-social behaviour on all public transport. A person may be sitting upstairs on the bus and someone who is drunk or not even drunk, or worse, someone on drugs, becomes aggressive. There is no provision for Luas security personnel to stop, search and arrest. They can simply escort someone off the tram. Since before 2016 Fianna Fáil has been calling for a dedicated public transport police to ensure, at a minimum, that random checks are carried out so that members of the public can take a journey on public transport, which we are encouraging them to use, in the knowledge that a random check may take place on any public transport service to dissuade anti-social behaviour.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We will not have a fourth Topical Issue matter today.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know why Deputies submit Topical Issue matters when they are not going to be here to take them. I thought there was always a reserve Topical Issue matter to make sure that four issues are discussed.

I add my voice to Deputy Lahart's in asking the Minister to tackle a growing problem on public transport, namely, anti-social behaviour and assault. By 9 September this year, 500 such incidents had been reported on Irish Rail and 11 drivers had been assaulted. Last month, four Bus Éireann drivers were assaulted. Dublin Bus has a protocol under which drivers who do not feel safe withdraw a service. Unfortunately, that is becoming very frequent.

This morning, on "Today with Sean O'Rourke", we heard two drivers, one from Irish Rail, the other a bus driver, share examples of their experiences, which included drivers being spat at, one driver being hit with a snooker ball in a sock and a ticket inspector who had three fingers broken. Only last weekend, a train on the Sligo line had to stop at Kilcock, causing a 45 minute delay for passengers while they waited for gardaí to come and remove an unruly passenger.

It is not good enough that workers in State companies do not feel safe going to work and that passengers are afraid in certain instances to use public transport or are delayed because of the need to deal with anti-social behaviour on public transport. Unfortunately, as with many of the commitments from his Department, the Minister is failing to act on this. I hope he will use the opportunity over the course of the next four minutes to outline exactly how he plans to deal with this issue.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I thank Deputies Troy and Lahart for raising a matter that is topical. This is an unusual occurrence in this House and it is very welcome that they are doing so.

As the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, I have responsibility for policy and overall funding for public transport. However, I am not involved in the day-to-day operations of public transport. The safety and security of passengers and staff, including arrangements to deal with anti-social behaviour on public transport, are matters for the operators, in conjunction with, as appropriate, An Garda Síochána. I am, however, concerned to ensure that the necessary arrangements are in place to ensure the safety of all passengers and staff travelling and working on our public transport network.

I am advised by the Department of Justice and Equality that there is a range of strong legislative provisions available to An Garda Síochána to combat anti-social behaviour, including provisions under the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Acts, the Criminal Damage Act and the Intoxicating Liquor Acts. An Garda Síochána remains committed to tackling public disorder and anti-social behaviour by working with communities to enhance safety.

There were 45.5 million passenger journeys in 2017 on Iarnród Éireann trains. The vast majority were without incident. However, I have been advised by Iarnród Éireann that the number of recorded anti-social incidents has risen in recent years; hence the concern expressed by the Deputies and others. Iarnród Éireann has been actively encouraging employees to report all safety critical issues, including threatening and violent behaviour. In the first nine months of this year, 584 incidents were recorded. However, Iarnród Éireann has advised that anti-social behaviour has receded significantly since the summer, when it would be typically at its highest level. Security patrols by the company have increased by 21.8% since 2016, and it has advised that it has enhanced general security cover and provides for enhanced security patrols for major events.

Iarnród Éireann liaises on a quarterly basis at a minimum with An Garda Síochána in major districts. In addition, there is ongoing liaison by the company with employees and their trade union representatives to assess reports of anti-social behaviour and direct security resources based on the issues reported. Closed circuit television, CCTV, is available on the vast majority of trains and has been used successfully numerous times in securing prosecutions. It is also in place in stations. In addition, Iarnród Éireann has advised that it has commenced the deployment of on-board customer services on intercity services. While the primary focus will be on customer service, the company will ensure a presence on these services to deter anti-social behaviour and to alert security or the Garda should urgent responses be required. Both Dublin Bus and Bus Éireann have stated the level of anti-social behaviour on their services is relatively low and note a declining trend, which is very positive. Both companies stress the strong and close working relationships with An Garda Síochána.

Following representations from the National Bus and Rail Union on the establishment of a dedicated police force for public transport, my Department wrote to Iarnród Éireann, Bus Éireann, Bus Átha Cliath and the Railway Safety Advisory Council to seek their views. Subsequent to that engagement, I contacted the Minister for Justice and Equality to seek his views as to how we might best address the issue. I have asked that the Minister consider this issue in conjunction with An Garda Síochána given that the allocation of all Garda resources, including the manner in which Garda personnel are deployed, is solely a decision for the Garda Commissioner and his management team. I will continue to work with the Minister for Justice to resolve this important issue.

John Lahart (Dublin South West, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for the response. There is good news in it, particularly in respect of Iarnród Éireann and the deployment of on-board customer services on intercity services. I appreciate that. I believe passive security is being suggested.

The Minister does not want to get involved in the day-to-day running of any of the companies. He is responsible for policy. What is his view on this given that the union has made multiple calls for a dedicated transport police? It obviously sees good reasons for doing so. CCTV does not capture low grade anti-social behaviour but it does capture physical assault, quite clearly. The Minister outlined some of the issues. Will he publish the responses from Dublin Bus, the Luas, Iarnród Éireann and the DART? What was the response from the Minister for Justice and Equality?

The Minister has travelled on a bus and used the tram. There is nothing more scary and anxiety inducing than being on a bus when there is anti-social behaviour taking place. One is simply trapped. At least on a bus or the Luas, one knows there will be a stop in three or five minutes but one can be on a train for an hour. There is simply no escape. That is the fundamental point to take on board.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister says he has responsibility for policy. The policy of ensuring the security of passengers using public transport and the staff working thereon should be key. The Minister has responsibility to ensure appropriate action is taken. It is not that he can prosecute somebody caught acting in an anti-social manner or who has assaulted somebody but he can prevent this behaviour on public transport.

The Minister said it is the responsibility of the Minister for Justice and Equality and that it is a decision for the Garda Commissioner but, in respect of the Judicial Appointments Commission Bill and the reopening of Stepaside Garda station, he had no problem in expressing his tuppence worth on their responsibilities. Therefore, I ask him to take on board what the union and workers are saying, in addition what Deputy John Lahart and I are saying about passengers who are using public transport.

Only last week a senior citizen in my constituency who travelled from Connolly Station to Mullingar said she was relieved getting off at Mullingar train station because she was afraid on the train. That is not right. It is certainly not proper and the Minister is responsible for doing something about it. I hope he will.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I fully understand Deputy Troy's concern about the incidents he is mentioning, particularly when they affect his area and constituents. He really does not expect me to get involved in any specific incidents that happen on trains or buses. It might make good copy for his local newspaper to come in here and say what he said but if he expects me-----

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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It is national policy.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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-----to say I should intervene in respect of a specific incident, I am not going to do it. I have no intention of doing it.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I did not ask the Minister to do so.

Shane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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What I said quite specifically is that this is for other people, agencies and authorities. They are well capable of dealing with the incidents. My concern overall is, of course, for the safety of staff and passengers. I am as concerned as the Deputy about the matters he addressed. My duty is not to interfere when an individual passenger has an unfortunate experience, however. It is to express my concern in very clear terms to the relevant bodies, including Bus Éireann, Dublin Bus, Iarnród Éireann and others, if I believe there is a trend or incidents or if not enough is being done to ensure the safety of passengers. That is what I will continue to do. I will continue to take seriously any individual representations made by Deputy Robert Troy and Deputy John Lahart. I have applauded the fact that they are prepared to bring this matter to the House. It is appropriate to do so but it is not appropriate to expect the Minister to intervene in individual incidents in Mullingar or elsewhere. I will not do that.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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It is dangerous going off script. The Minister is contradicting himself.