John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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82. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection if she is engaging in work regarding child maintenance payments; the process in place for seeking such maintenance; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [46857/18]

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I want to ask about child maintenance payments and whether the Minister has examined the area. What are her intentions in this respect?

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I have to be careful that I do not say something different from what I said ten minutes ago. There is a review going on within our Department. The Deputy will be aware from conversations we have had here previously that I was not happy with some of the aspects that I discovered when I came to this portfolio, particularly in respect of people who are under threat of domestic violence. We have made those changes. That allowed me to stick my nose into this section and say, "Hang on a second, what are we doing here?" We have conducted a review over the past couple of months but, before finalising what we should do, manners would dictate that we should sit down with the people in the Department of Justice and Equality who have responsibility for this. I need to question whether we should have a liable relatives division in our Department. That does not mean it needs to go. It either needs to be beefed up to do what everybody wants it to do or it needs to become the responsibility of some other Department. I will not countenance people being disenfranchised because of a condition of application to schemes regarding what they are currently entitled to for the sustainable minimum living standards of themselves and their children.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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There is a crossover between the Departments of Employment Affairs and Social Protection and Justice and Equality. The Minister said earlier that she will meet officials in the Department of Justice and Equality this month, which I welcome.

The Minister stated that she carried out a review. It would be helpful if details of that review could be circulated to Members.

The Minister will be aware of the current set-up regarding child maintenance. Predominantly, it is the mother who is affected. If she does not receive a payment, by and large she has to go to the District Court to chase it up. Yesterday, I spoke to a mother who told me it had cost her €9,000 in legal fees to try to get child maintenance payments. Does the Minister agree it is wrong that they should have to go to court? There are so many difficulties there. People are afraid and feel intimidated going into a court setting. That needs to be eliminated.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I published a proposal for a stand-alone child maintenance service.

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy. Time is up.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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I sent it to the Minister. I would like to get her views on introducing something similar to what is in place in Britain. Would the Minister consider rolling that out?

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy sent me the proposal some months ago. I thank him for sending it and I did read it. However, the matter does not fall within my remit. Much as I stick my nose into stuff that is none of my business, this definitely is not my business. My Department exists to support people. However, I agree with one thing. The former partner of the lady who paid €9,000 should be ashamed. Every parent has a responsibility towards his or her children. We should not need to bring someone - man or woman - to court to bear that responsibility. We have a system that does not seem to be working and nobody is really satisfied with it because it infringes on the ability of our Department to give people who are most vulnerable the support they need to have a minimum standard of living. We need to sit around a table to decide whether we are in or out, whether the Department of Justice and Equality is in or out, or whether we collaboratively do something that actually provides a straightforward mechanism. Perhaps it could be something like in the United Kingdom with attachment orders against wages or social welfare payments.

I have discovered that if there is an attachment order against a social welfare payment, we would just have to increase the social welfare of the person, meaning that again the State pays. We need to tease these things out so that the State does not end up on the hook and taking over the responsibility from errant parents.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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As the Minister may be aware, in 2017 the UN made a recommendation that endorses my proposal for a child maintenance service. I accept that is not necessarily the responsibility of the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection but that of the Department of Justice and Equality. I have sat down with officials from the Department and they have said it is not on their radar. It needs to be on their radar and it needs to come from the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection with responsibility for lone parents to put the pressure on. I welcome the meeting later in the month. That needs to be a core element of the discussion on child maintenance.

The Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection has responsibility. Why does she still include child maintenance when assessing means for social welfare payments? The Minister will be aware that child maintenance is seen as a means of helping lift children out of poverty. She has responsibility for that. Does she see it as a payment for the household or as a payment for the child?

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thank the Deputy.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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It is totally wrong for child maintenance to be considered in assessing means for social welfare payments. That is her responsibility. The Department of Justice and Equality-----

Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has made his point; now let us hear the Minister.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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----- is responsible in other areas, but that is her responsibility.

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I take some solace in knowing the Deputy thinks that I have more influence in the Department of Justice and Equality than he does.

John Brady (Wicklow, Sinn Fein)
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It is a Government colleague.

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I know what he would like to see; I am somewhere in between. We will have that meeting with the Department of Justice and Equality later this month. I will come back to the Deputy and we will have a conversation on how best to progress it. I am aware of the UN recommendation.

The Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection has generous disregards with regard to maintenance. Income is income into a household. Why would the State give the same money that is already coming into a household for a child a second time? The Deputy cannot discount that is there; there certainly is a disregard for it. The Deputy cannot discount that somebody is bearing the financial responsibility towards their child. It would be errant for the State to make a payment twice. We can certainly have a conversation about the Deputy's belief that it should be a higher payment. That is a different discussion. However, he cannot discount. We are talking about ensuring that people are bearing their responsibilities for looking after their own children. The Deputy wants us to say, "Don't worry about them doing it. It's grand. We'll give you extra money anyway." I do not agree with that.