Dáil debates

Tuesday, 13 November 2018

Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions

Pensions Reform

5:15 am

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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75. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection the status of her plans for legislative changes in pension law; when amendments will be tabled to the Social Welfare, Pensions and Civil Registration Bill 2017; the reason for the delay of more than a year; and when the Bill will be progressed. [46879/18]

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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113. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection her plans for legislation that will offer CIÉ workers and other semi-State workers protection on their pension schemes; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [46892/18]

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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115. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection when she will introduce measures to offer workers in defined benefit pension schemes adequate protection; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [46891/18]

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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What is the status of plans to legislate for changes to pension law? When will the amendments be tabled to the Social Welfare, Pensions and Civil Registration Bill 2017? What is the reason for the delay of more than a year?

Photo of Regina DohertyRegina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 75, 113 and 115 together.

The general scheme of the social welfare and pensions Bill 2017 - now the Social Welfare, Pensions and Civil Registration Bill 2017 - was published in May 2017 and contained a number of key measures relating to defined benefit pension schemes. It is intended that these measures will act to support existing provisions in the Pensions Act by providing for further protection for scheme members' benefits and enhance employer responsibilities for their schemes.

In July 2018, Government approval was obtained to draft additional provisions to be included in the Bill on Committee Stage, including provisions relating to defined benefit schemes. In developing these, it is essential to recognise the current pension landscape in Ireland in order that a balanced, proportionate approach is developed and that unintended negative consequences do not arise.

Under existing pensions law, there is no legislative obligation on the employer to make contributions to a scheme. The provisions of this Bill, however, will introduce a new regime into the Pensions Act 1990 that, among other things, will ensure that an employer cannot “walk away” at short notice from the pension scheme it is supporting by providing a 12-month notification, and will enable the Pensions Authority to make a funding obligation direction specifying payments to be made by a sponsoring employer to the pension scheme where no agreement is reached, within a specified time period, to resolve a funding deficit.

The defined benefit pension provisions are very technical and involve complex policy issues. It has been necessary to consult and obtain numerous legal advices from the Office of the Attorney General on various aspects of this policy to achieve a resilient solution. When these matters have been resolved and amendments approved by the Government, I will request an early date for Committee Stage.

Many of the provisions contained in the EU directive on institutions for occupational retirement provision, IORP II, will also support positive reform of the Irish occupational pensions sector. My officials, together with the Pensions Authority, are working on the transposition process to ensure the necessary amendments to existing laws, regulations or administrative provisions will be made to give full effect to the directive. I hope this clarifies the matter.

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for her reply. It is now a year and a half since the legislation was introduced. Deputies O'Dea and Brady and I have introduced Bills in this area. The one I am asking about is a distillation. Each of us had a Bill with more lofty objectives. The aim was to ensure the protection of workers who are being thrown sacrificial lambs, even with well-to-do employers running amok. The introduction of our Bills led to one company coming back from the brink and giving at least some employees protection.

There are important measures in the defined benefit scheme to ensure that employers do not disavow their obligations willy-nilly. This Bill was to offer some degree of protection to workers in defined benefit schemes but a year and a half has passed. I accept that the Attorney General's office is snowed under and the Minister has said there is a European dimension to it as well in respect of European legislative provisions that will enhance it, I hope, but can she give an indication of the likely time in 2019? Does she expect it to be in the first quarter of 2019?

5:25 am

Photo of Regina DohertyRegina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I would love to be able to say I can but I cannot. The reason is that the amendments we are proposing are particularly technical and complex. The only thing I can guarantee is that I am as frustrated by the delay as the Deputy. Advancing this legislation is on our management board meeting agenda every week. It is near the top of my list and will certainly not go away until we get the date and the amendments we need accepted and brought back to the Cabinet. All I can say is that it is getting my full attention.

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I appreciate that the Department must examine the balance and other such matters. We had a detailed discussion with ICTU and the various unions, including SIPTU and Unite. All the trade unions are of one voice on this. We want the legislative changes brought forward and the Pensions Act 1990 significantly amended. There will be funding obligations coming forward that will curtail the smart alec employers from walking away from their obligations. These people have significant funding and are not even insolvent employers. If they were, sometimes the employees would be in a better position, as with Waterford Glass. In this case, however, people who are very well off are making sure to enrich themselves and to give bigger shareholder payments and dividends, while throwing to the wolves the unfortunate workers who have contributed many years of their working lives. We want to ensure that does not happen. I urge the Minister to keep it at the top of her agenda.

Photo of Regina DohertyRegina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Penrose and I are on the same page. I will keep in touch with him.

Question No. 76 replied to with Written Answers