Barry Cowen (Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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55. To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the status of the issue of recruitment and retention under the Public Service Pay Commission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43916/18]

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Approval has been given to Deputy Troy to take Deputy Cowen's questions in his absence.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Office of the Ceann Comhairle for facilitating Deputy Cowen's request. I ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform to update the House on the Public Service Pay Commission's consideration of issues of recruitment and retention.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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To date, the Public Service Pay Commission has completed two reports that address recruitment and retention issues in the public service. The first report, which was published on 9 May 2017, primarily focused on the unwinding of the financial emergency measures legislation. The Government asked the commission, in making its findings, to take account of evidence on recruitment and retention issues arising in the public service. The commission found that "evidence suggests that there are not significant recruitment difficulties to the various large scale public service vocational streams". It advised that "consideration could be given to commissioning a more comprehensive examination of underlying difficulties in recruitment and retention in those sectors and employment streams where difficulties are evident". Under the terms of the public service stability agreement, PSSA, the commission was commissioned to undertake a more comprehensive examination of the limited recruitment and retention issues in the public service. The commission's work is constrained by its terms of reference and by the PSSA and does not amount to a review of the pay a particular group or groups of workers. As Deputies will be aware, the commission's second report focused on recruitment and retention in our health services. It concluded that "current pay rates do not appear to be unduly affecting the number of nurses, midwives and doctors applying to work abroad". It considered that "national levels of nursing and midwifery turnover rates do not indicate a generalised retention crisis". It found that "the available evidence suggests that none of the turnover rates reported are significantly out of line with those experienced in private sector employment". The commission made a number of recommendations, which I accept. I want to use this opportunity to thank it and to acknowledge the work it has done to date.

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has spoken about the challenges and difficulties that exist in the health area, for example with regard to staff turnover. Any Deputy who engages with his or her constituents, particularly in a constituency where there is a large cohort of health professionals working in the local hospital, will be aware that there are major problems with hiring and retaining staff. The overwhelming rejection of the deal by 94% of members of the Irish Nurses and Midwives Organisation, INMO, confirms what I am saying about the feeling within the health service. What is the Minister's view? Given that the INMO has overwhelmingly rejected the proposal, how does he intend to advance?

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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As I indicated in my Budget Statement earlier this month, I will be accepting the Public Service Pay Commission's recommendations on recruitment and retention in the health sector. Of course we are willing to engage with representatives of the health service, while making it very clear that our pay bill and our pay policy are determined through the PSSA. Our public pay figures for next year, and under the remainder of this agreement, are very clearly set out. I want to take this opportunity to ask Deputy Troy to confirm what Fianna Fáil's policy in this area is. At an Oireachtas committee meeting earlier this year, Fianna Fáil's health spokesperson acknowledged:

Starting with doctors, numerous sources say our doctors are still some of the best paid in the world .... we are in the top ten [countries] .... the reality is that our doctors are not badly paid, but well paid .... it appears that our nurses are pretty well paid. Our doctors also appear to be well paid.

What is Fianna Fáil's policy in this area? Its health spokesperson acknowledged earlier this year that pay levels are good and reflect the quality of work that is going on in our health services, but he argued for more pay on "Morning Ireland" last Friday. Does Deputy Troy accept the Public Service Pay Commission's recommendations in respect of recruitment and retention?

Robert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister is trying to deflect from his own responsibilities. He is in government and is responsible for making decisions. It is the Minister, and not any Deputy on this side of the House, who has the executive functions. Does he believe that if the Public Service Pay Commission's report is fully implemented, it will resolve the recruitment and retention issues in the health service? He seems to think there are no recruitment and retention issues in the health service, but it is clear that such issues exist. What are the plans for recruiting and retaining staff within the health service? Does he think the system will cope with the new demands associated with our increasing population and the roll-out and implementation of Sláintecare? I am speaking quite parochially as a representative of Longford-Westmeath who engages with the health professionals working at Midland Regional Hospital in Mullingar.

They are at breaking point in their ability to recruit and retain key staff. That is a fact.

Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)
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I accept fully the recommendations as Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and I have answered Deputy Troy's questions. I accept the recommendations and analysis put forward by the Public Service Pay Commission. It stated we have challenges in particular areas. I accept the recommendations it has put forward on what needs to be done from a targeted allowance point of view. My answer is very clear. On that basis I and the Department of Health will engage with representatives from nursing. In acknowledging where I stand on the issue, it is important for everyone, and particularly for Fianna Fáil as the main Opposition party that has made great efforts under Deputy Michael McGrath, to be clear on where they stand on key issues of economic responsibility.

Who speaks for Deputy Troy's party on this matter? Is it Deputy Michael McGrath, Deputy Cowen, Deputy Troy himself or is it Deputy Donnelly? If it is Deputy Donnelly, then he is saying different things depending on the audience. My understanding is that Deputy Troy's party is committed to the implementation of the public service stability agreement. If that is the case, I want to understand from Deputy Troy if his party accepts the recommendations of the Public Service Pay Commission and is it willing to be clear in outlining that in order to manage new service demands and new resourcing needs we need to be careful about how we manage our public sector wage bill?