Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I refer to the plight of serving members of the Defence Forces who find themselves in deplorable conditions relating to their pay and entitlements. What steps are being taken to alleviate the hardship being endured by many such members? The families and spouses of Defence Forces personnel recently marched to these Houses in a very dignified way and handed letters to the Government to seek to ensure that their dignity is maintained and that we recognise the service they give to this country.

What steps are being taken to ensure that there is the required core of military personnel across the Air Corps, Naval Service and Army? As the Minister of State will be aware, members of the Naval Service reserve were recently asked to fill full-time places within the Naval Service. Today of all days, the 60th United Nations Day, it is unedifying for the country to have a shortage of competent military personnel. I hope to hear something positive from the Minister of State regarding his intentions for concrete actions to ensure that the conditions under which people work within the services are addressed such that they, at least, receive the living wage and are paid a fair day's salary for a fair day's work. We must ensure that there is a core crew of competent personnel across the Army, Naval Service and Air Corps.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this matter and for his agreement yesterday to defer it to this afternoon.

I acknowledge his interest in the Defence Forces and his concern for the men and women of Óglaigh na hÉireann who serve Ireland with distinction at home and overseas. I, as Minister of State, and the Government value each member of the Defence Forces and the roles they carry out, whether as peacekeepers or supporting the Garda Síochána and other State agencies in Ireland. For this reason, we have taken measures to improve the pay and conditions of serving members as well as addressing the challenges facing the Defence Forces.

Defence Forces pay is continuing to increase in line with public sector pay agreements. The increases are weighted in favour of those on lower pay. Members of the Defence Forces received increases in pay in 2017 under the Lansdowne Road Agreement. In a separate deal agreed with the Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association, PDFORRA, the pay of general service recruits and privates who joined the Permanent Defence Forces after 1 January 2013 was increased further. The Public Service Stability Agreement 2018-2020 provides for further increases in pay ranging from 6.2% to 7.4% over the lifetime of the agreement. The increases under the agreement due from 1 January 2018 and 1 October 2018 have been applied to the annualised salaries of Permanent Defence Force personnel. Further increases under the agreement are scheduled for payment in 2019 and 2020. By the end of the current public service pay agreement the pay of all public servants, including members of the Defence Forces, earning under €70,000 per annum will be restored to the levels in place prior to the FEMPI legislation, as the Deputy will be aware. Defence Forces personnel who joined after January 2011 will also benefit from the recently announced amendments to the pay scales for new entrant public servants. The restoration of cuts to allowances will also be considered in the context of the public service pay agreement.

The average annual salary inclusive of military service allowance for a 3 star private, which is the starting rank for enlisted personnel, is currently €35,000 gross, while the average salary for an able seaman, which is the equivalent rank in the Naval Service, is €37,000 gross. Members of the Defence Forces also benefit from additional pay rates and allowances. These include technical pay which ranges from €420 to €7,000 extra each year depending on the job of the individual member. Approximately 47% of enlisted personnel are currently in receipt of technical pay. In the past two years, we have increased the opportunities for personnel to serve overseas. The average tax-free overseas payment received by general service personnel in 2017 was a little more than €8,000 and the average paid to officers was almost €10,300.

On retention, given the unique and demanding nature of military life, there is understandably a higher level of turnover among Defence Forces personnel than in other areas of the public service. This is not new. Recruitment and retention issues in respect of certain specialist grades in the Defence Forces were highlighted in the report of the Public Service Pay Commission in May 2017. The Government subsequently tasked the commission with examining these challenges. That work has commenced and a detailed joint civil and military submission has been forwarded to the commission.

A range of factors influence an individual’s decision to stay in the Defence Forces. Some progress has been made on non-pay initiatives, including more than 600 promotions to date in 2018 resulting in the promotion of one in 14 serving members. Members receive pay increases on promotion. For the first time in a decade, a potential officers course was commenced this year, giving 24 enlisted personnel a route to becoming commissioned officers. Additionally, four enlisted personnel were commissioned as officers earlier this year to fill vacancies in air traffic control.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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I appreciate the Minister of State's answer. It presents a very rosy picture. The Minister of State stands up here and says on the record of the House that pay for a 3 star private, which is the starting rank for enlisted personnel, is €35,000 gross while pay for the average able seaman, which is the equivalent rank in the Naval Service, is €37,000 gross. I do not know if that is the experience based on an average working week of 39 hours because if we examine those figures more closely, we will find that most people who are within the services are working far in excess of 39 hours per week. When we annualise the hours and the average hours per week worked for the salaries that are being articulated here, the picture is far more stark than the one presented to us by the Minister of State. I have an example involving a soldier with 20 years service who got an affordable house with a mortgage ten years ago. He has a monthly mortgage payment of €700 and two daughters and receives €500 per week on average from the Defence Forces. He is applying for family income supplement. No soldier or member of the Naval Service or Air Corps should have to apply for family income supplement. That is the point I am making. There is a gap somewhere between what the Minister of State is telling us and the reality for soldiers on the ground. I do not want to be too rhetorical about this. I want to give the Minister of State a chance to deal with this issue and I think we have given the Government a fair wind to deal with it. I know of soldiers who are taking home €300 per week. The military allowance of €120 is being used to make up core pay when it should be additional pay. There are all sorts of issues there. Every Member of the House could come before us with individual examples of soldiers in their constituencies or members of the Defence Forces but I still believe there is a lot of work to be done by Government to make soldiering and working in the Naval Service or Air Corps something to be proud of. The rates of attrition are due to the fact that basic rates of pay are too poor.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I would be the first to say that we have challenges in the Defence Forces. There is no doubt about that and I have recognised and stated that on numerous occasions. We are competing in a very strong economy that is almost at full employment. A significant amount of work is happening in the background. The Deputy understands public sector pay. He understands that we cannot take one organisation out of the public sector and say that we will pay it more because the Deputy, his party and every other Member of this House, including those on my side of the House, would be jumping up and down asking why, if the Defence Forces were getting more pay, everybody else, including teachers, doctors and gardaí, did not get more pay. I hope the Deputy recognises and understands that. They are members of the public service who have received increases under the public service stability agreement out to 2020. Anyone in receipt of €70,000 pre-FEMPI cuts will have their pay restored. Military management and senior civil servants in my Department have worked over many months to produce a joint submission that was presented to the Public Service Pay Commission. The commission looked for a data-based submission with which we have presented it. I have asked that the commission meet face to face with military management and departmental management to go through the challenges relating to recruitment and retention within the Defence Forces. I commend members of the Defence Forces for the work they do. If it was as simple as just giving a pay rise, we would all do it but the Deputy understands that we just cannot take one organisation out of the public service and say there you go, that we are not looking after anybody else. We are going through the public service stability agreement programme. There have been increases this year since 1 January and 1 October and there will be further increases going to 2020. We are working in parallel with the Public Service Pay Commission.