Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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8. To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Justice and Equality the status of the work within his Department to regulate and control the gambling sector; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42512/18]

Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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Will the Minister provide an update on the progress made with the gambling control Bill? I know the Minister has worked hard in this area, establishing a working group on it this year. Will he provide an update on some of the issues that this group has worked through?

Gambling is pervasive across society. If one has a gambling problem, there is no getting away from it as it is present in every facet of society. It is a significant cause of concern for parents of young men who are particularly vulnerable to problem gambling. It is an issue on which much work is needed.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I am happy to update the Deputy on developments to reform our legislation in the gambling sector as far as the Department of Justice and Equality is concerned.

First, the Government has prepared amendments to update the current Gaming and Lotteries Act 1956. These changes will ensure the better promotion and regulation of the various gaming and lottery type activities which take place, primarily at local level. These activities are important for charitable, sporting and philanthropic fundraising purposes. The gaming and lotteries (amendment) Bill is being drafted by the Office of the Parliamentary Counsel. I hope to receive a text for publication by the end of this session.

Second, the Government, on 10 January 2018, approved several proposals to update the 2013 general scheme of the gambling control Bill. Critically, the Government approved a proposal to establish an independent regulatory authority for the gambling industry. The 2013 proposal had been to have the regulatory function essentially contained within the Department. This decision reflected our consideration that an independent body would be best placed to conduct the complex range of licensing, regulating, monitoring, inspection and enforcement tasks of the gambling industry in all of its manifestations.

To advance the review of the 2013 general scheme, I chaired an interdepartmental working group on gambling comprising all stakeholder Departments and the Office of the Attorney General. The group met on five occasions between February and June of this year. It reviewed all of the provisions of the 2013 scheme, as well as other relevant developments since. The group is preparing its report, which I hope to bring to the Government for consideration as soon as possible.

Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for his response and acknowledge the work that he and his officials are doing. The problem is that the technology is changing so quickly that it is almost impossible for the legislation to keep up. We are always lagging behind. That is where the role of an independent regulator is important. I welcome the decision made by the Government earlier this year to establish an independent regulatory office in this regard.

One man in my constituency who had problems with gambling said he books his holidays during Cheltenham week every year because the talk of betting and the price for horses is pervasive in every radio and television programme. He said if one is watching a soccer match, at half-time it will come up with the price for Messi to score next in the game. There is no getting away from gambling.

Advertising that has a real impact needs to be challenged. We need to change the culture in this regard. On the first day of an election campaign, politicians have a photo taken of them putting a bet on themselves to win. This needs to be stopped, just like where we stopped taking visiting dignitaries straight to the pub for a pint. That kind of culture change is important and an independent office will bring that about.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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The primary objective of the modernisation of gambling legislation must be to ensure the proper licensing and regulation of the many varied forms of gambling now available in the State. A modern and effectively regulated gambling environment will ensure, to the greatest extent possible, that gambling will be an entertaining activity for the majority of those who take part in it.

We will ensure there will be enhanced consumer protection for players, effective protection for younger persons under 18 years of age and that we will, as far as we can, limit the harmful effects on those who may be susceptible to addictive behaviour. Such people will require health-based interventions by suitable treatments. The safeguarding proposals in the 2013 scheme will require development and continual monitoring thereafter.

A key element of the proposed new regulation is that it would permit the establishment and operation of a social fund supported by industry levies. Such a fund will support those professional expert organisations involved in addiction treatment.

Potential restrictions on gambling advertising and sponsorship must be carefully considered, targeted and effective. The 2013 scheme contained provisions with regard to this. In particular, activities aimed at persons under 18 years of age and vulnerable persons are to be prevented. These developments need to be revisited in the light of developments, technological and otherwise, since 2013. Gambling advertising and promotions are increasingly individually targeted using new technology.

Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael)
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Online gaming is another area which we have to address. I am conscious of the game Fortnite and all of the concerns around it. Elements of these games have loot boxes. This is another example of where people get that little high and the same excitement as they get with a lottery scratch card. Young children of ten, 11 and 12 years of age are playing these games. These are pervasive and are having an impact on them at an early stage. These are the types of activities we need to control.

I accept the Minister of State’s point that gambling addiction requires health-based solutions. There are steps we can take from a regulatory perspective, however, to protect people from gambling. I have come across instances where young male apprentices on apprenticeship wages of several hundred euro a week have managed to max out up to four credit cards and run up debts of €20,000 before their parents found out. The young men suffered much stress because they felt they could not talk to anybody. The gambling control Bill should prevent gambling with a credit card. It should be money a person has at the very least and he or she should not be able to run up that level of debt. These are the steps we can take, along with the health measures, to help those with gambling problems. We must protect as best we can those who suffer from these challenges.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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I agree with the Deputy that this is a very complex area, especially with modern technology. We are pleased, however, to support the recent voluntary declaration by the Gaming Regulators European Forum which reflected concern among national authorities that video games should be appropriately licensed if they offer gambling possibilities within such games. While the declaration does not have legal effect, it is intended to have a nudge effect. It clearly signals the regulatory authorities’ concerns and alerts parents as to potential problems, as well as to take responsibility, especially where the player may be under 18 years of age.

To offer gambling products in Ireland - gaming as defined in the 1956 Act is covered by that - a licence is required under the Betting Acts 1931 to 2015 or the Gaming and Lotteries Act 1956. While the Minister for Justice and Equality has certain responsibilities under both Acts, it is the Revenue Commissioners who are the responsible licensing authority.

In the context of video games, if a game sought to offer an activity or items for purchase that would fall within the current Irish legal definition of gambling, then a relevant licence would be required by the manufacturer of the game. To the best of our knowledge, no manufacturer to date has sought such licensing by gambling regulators in Ireland or in other EU member states. If a game offers in-game purchases advertised to increase the chances of success in the game and does not fall within the current Irish legal definition of gambling, such purchases are essentially an e-commerce activity. This would fall within the recourse of normal consumer law where there is dissatisfaction on the part of the consumer with the purchase.

Regardless of one's view on in-game purchases and the marketing thereof, one must be clear that they fall within the legal definition of a gambling activity and thus engage the regulatory attention of my Department or other Departments responsible for such regulation. That is also the position in many other EU member states.