Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for coming in to deal with this issue himself. I am speaking on the role of primary school principals - teaching principals and those who are walking principals. I raise this after meeting the Irish Primary Principals Network and also from working closely with my colleague Councillor Alison Gilliland of the Irish National Teachers Organisation, INTO, which consistently raises this issue with me.

Put simply, the working conditions of primary school principals are unbearable. I know the Minister has set up a forum to deal with many of the issues I will outline but as part of the budget the Minister now has a unique opportunity to deal with these working conditions. If he does not do so, the educational benefit for children at primary level, which is so important and where my own children are today, will suffer.

I was gobsmacked to find out that the guidance on the role of principals has not been updated since a circular in 1975. That was the year I was born and this is not acceptable. There has been a range of missives and circulars issued on the role but the actual role has not been updated. Principals are expected to be in charge of all education and teaching in schools but are also expected to be administrators and the administration has now grown to an insufferable level. For instance, last year there were 84 circulars issued to primary school principals. How in the name of God can principals be in charge of the teaching component of the school, which is so important, and be in charge of administration at that level as well with the resources that they have?

Three people who I know well, one of whom is a good friend and all of whom are female, have resigned their jobs as primary school principals and teachers. They are more or less the same age as me and a couple of them are younger than me so they are all in their late 30s and early 40s. They are resigning as principals because they cannot bear the conditions they are working under. It is a real issue for them that it is actually more difficult to get back into teaching because teachers do not really have any rights in that sense. They do not even have panel rights so that is another issue the Minister needs to deal with.

Given all of the responsibility that principals now have and the fact that in many cases they now have to work through the summer to deal with the backlog of administration, the Oireachtas, including the Minister, must now deal with these real issues. They need more resources and they need greater pay and conditions. They have to know that the Department will support them in their role because voluntary boards will not cut it in terms of picking up the slack. There are so many good people on those boards and so many brilliant chairs of boards of management but it is still ultimately left with the principals to deal with having the best teaching conditions and to do all of the other administration, much of which is necessary but some of which could probably be better dealt with. A model for helping these people and resources for doing it must be found or the educational opportunities and benefits for my children and the children of this country will be affected.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I welcome the Deputy's interest in this issue because the role of leaders in our schools is hugely important and I wish to give him some reassurance. We have successfully recruited 6,000 additional teachers to our schools in the last three years and as the Deputy knows, the standards of reading and mathematics among our ten years olds are the best in Europe. We have a great deal to be grateful for around the manner in which our schools are managed. That does not mean that we should stand still and I have set an ambitious target that by 2026 we will seek to have the best education and training service in Europe. That means improvements in literacy, digital technologies and the learning environment, breaking down cycles of disadvantage and reforming curricula to update them and make them more relevant to people. That involves change and we of course rely on principals to be the leaders of change within their schools.

I mention some of the measures we have taken, for example, last year we appointed 2,600 additional assistant principals. Not only have we done that but we negotiated an agreement with the trade unions on a new approach to management which involves a more devolved and collective leadership. It also involves reporting on the role that these assistant principals will take within their schools and will move away from appointments based on an approach of one's turn having come around. We have also made a substantial investment in primary education which has helped principals in having additional resources at their disposal and I have mentioned some of these in the written reply. We have reduced the pupil-teacher ratio to the lowest level ever in the history of the State and we have provided over 600 resource teachers and over 1,800 special needs assistants, SNAs. Hundreds of schools are now operating innovative projects in clusters where principals and others within the school are taking on leadership roles in adopting technology and applying DEIS initiatives and creative initiatives.

On teaching principals specifically, this year I allocated additional time off to allow them to manage their responsibilities more effectively. I increased it by between two and four days depending on the size of the school as is outlined in the written reply. Extra time off has been a continuing demand from teaching principals.

The other thing I did, which came directly from the INTO because its former president was impressed by the initiative, was to introduce clusters. There were 14 clusters in existence which meant that more remote schools could come together in a cluster and pool their time off, which allowed them to employ a permanent position. It has been really beneficial. I have extended the number of clusters from 14 to 50.

The biggest thing, which the Deputy did not refer to at all, is the creation of the centre for school leadership, which is now investing in the leaders in our schools. Each year about 1,000 principals get the opportunity to have mentoring or coaching or to gain postgraduate qualifications to improve their capacity to manage their resource. They are very significant changes. As the Deputy rightly observed, many principals feel there is too much coming at them. They recognise the importance of child protection, new curricula and new ways of teaching. All of these things are important. We have set up a forum to look at the sequencing of those things to try to allow them to manage those issues. In terms of pay, principals are benefitting under the pay agreement. I absolutely support the Deputy's belief that investing in leadership is possibly the best bang for our buck we can get. We have started to put in place measures that show our commitment in this area.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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The Minister has not answered the question of why so many young principals are resigning from their jobs. It has to be a concern for the Minister. Will the Minister please update the guidance for principals, which has not been updated since 1975? I am sure people will be shocked when the Minister outlines what their full role is. A survey by the Irish Primary Principals Network showed that 89% of principals felt their mental health has been affected by the amount of work they have to do and 84% said they are considering stepping aside from their job. I have a very good friend who went to school with me, has been working in a local school but has resigned from her job. She does not have any rights. Will the Minister address this situation in order that principals who choose to go back into the classroom, because of the volume of work, have some rights, given the amount of time they have given?

The Minister also is not dealing with issues of pay parity. Pay equality across all areas for teachers is required. Commitments with regard to pay parity that were given to principals in 2007 should be addressed. We need to look at the issue of the restoration of posts across the board in the primary sector. My wife is a teacher. Posts were suppressed and they need to be brought back in to help principals. We need to understand why there has been a change on the appointment figure needed to get a mainstream teacher back. Why is it higher than to retain a teacher? It does not make sense. We need an immediate increase in the ancillary grant allowed for secretarial staff, caretakers and cleaning staff. Once and for all, will the Minister help those teaching principals who work in small schools? A friend of mine who sat beside me in primary school is a brilliant teacher and a brilliant principal. His name is John. They deserve a day off a week to deal with what I have already outlined. There are 84 circulars. To be a working principal in a three-teacher, four-teacher or five-teacher school and to deal with this at the same time is impossible. Is it any wonder that principals are resigning from their posts? They want to stay teaching but they did not sign up to do this amount of work. It is inconceivable to do the work. They do not get paid well enough. They cannot do it. Will the Minister please deal with that issue as well?

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Kelly is long enough around the House to know the current Government, the previous Government and all Governments I know of have engaged in collective bargaining across the sector with the public service unions. It has not been a question of segregating different groups or principals within that. We collectively negotiate arrangements. We have recently, as the Deputy acknowledged albeit grudgingly, negotiated restoration to young teachers who were recruited at lower rates of pay. All Deputies know why they were.

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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That is not what I am talking about.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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They were recruited because of that. The Deputy asked about the posts of responsibility that there used to be. I do not know whether the Deputy listened to my reply but I have restored-----

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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Not all of them.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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-----2,600 such posts. That means 37% of teachers are now in positions where they have assistant-----

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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Many of them are still suppressed.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I do not know if the Deputy is interested in the answer or just in imparting information.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister, without interruption.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I do not know how I can answer without interruption when every moment I am interrupted. We are restoring this. The centre for school leadership is a fantastic initiative. We are investing in it and seeing more principals getting the opportunity to develop their skills. That is really important. I am extending and have extended the days when teachers who are teaching principals have time off in order to manage those resources. I provided for clusters-----

Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour)
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One day a week.

Richard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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Again, the Deputy did not listen to the answer. It was two, three and four days a week depending on the size of the school. In addition, I have provided clusters where schools can pool their resources to take on a permanent position to support them. We are making progress. I am glad the Deputy is urging more investment in education because it is something I want to do. The Deputy should acknowledge there are many really good principals doing great work and we have succeeded at a very difficult period in driving our education system to have the highest standards of literacy and numeracy in Europe. That is no mean achievement. We need to credit our leaders in the schools with that.