Dáil debates

Thursday, 14 June 2018

Ceisteanna - Questions - Priority Questions

Community Services Programme Funding

10:40 am

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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3. To ask the Minister for Rural and Community Development the amount available for the community services programme in 2018; if he has provided extra funding to the participating companies to cover the increases in recent years in the minimum wage; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [25933/18]

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The community services programme is important. The way it always worked was that the minimum wage was paid to each company, along with the employers' PRSI, for all participants, plus a grant for the manager. In certain cases, there was supplementary funding. That continued to be the way until 2014. Since then, however, the system has changed and companies must now come up with funding themselves to supplement the grant provided to pay the minimum wage. Will this continue?

10:50 am

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The community services programme, CSP, supports 400 community organisations to provide local services through a social enterprise model. Funding is provided as a contribution to the cost of a manager and an agreed number of full-time equivalent positions. More than €46 million is available to support community organisations under the programme for 2018.

The CSP contribution is not aligned to the national minimum wage. It is a fixed annual contribution that is required to be co-funded by the organisations concerned from other sources, for example, from income received from the public use of their facilities and services. Having said that, a CSP support fund was established in 2016 to help organisations to secure their sustainability and assist them in meeting their obligations regarding wages. The fund provided additional funding to select organisations on a reducing scale over the three-year period from 2016 to 2018. My Department will commence a review of the CSP later in the year. The review will consider, among other things, how the programme fits with overall Government priorities as well as my Department's other community programmes and policy objectives. Decisions on the structure of funding supports for CSP-funded organisations will be taken upon completion of the review.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister confirmed in a previous written reply that up until 2015 the minimum wage was covered 100%. A company with five full-time equivalent staff now has to find €10,000 simply to pay wages, not to mention meeting all the other overhead costs faced. As the Minister is aware, some of these companies provide meals-on-wheels services or run community centres where there is no major revenue stream. Yet, they keep these places open all day or provide fundamental community services where there are limited income sources. Is it the Minister's intention to return to the situation that obtained up to 2015, when the full wage was covered for the full-time equivalent staff who were approved under the community services grant?

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is an important programme. I like this programme and it is working well. Deputy Ó Cuív knows that what we give is a grant. We are not the employers. For me or the Department to commit to what Deputy Ó Cuív is asking for would cost €3 million. We are supporting 1,670 full-time jobs and we have 300 managers. That amounts to almost 2,000 people. A sum of €3 million is a great deal of money. At present, we have new organisations that want to come in on the programme. Some of the older organisations are being reviewed. I would have to find €3 million.

I will give one commitment to Deputy Ó Cuív. We are undertaking a review of the programme. No review of the programme has been done for a long time. However, I will have to find extra money if I am to meet and support his request.

We provided €600,000 to support groups that were finding it difficult to meet their costs, especially with regard to the minimum wage. Over 150 applications were received. We provided grant aid and supported over 100 of these. We are aware of the problem and we are providing support. However, to cover the cost of the minimum wage would cost me and the Department €3 million. If I were to provide €3 million, I would have to start looking at the 1,670 people on the scheme and the 300 managers. I would have to find that money some way. The only way I can find it is either by getting extra funding or reducing some of the schemes in place.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Funnily enough, even during the downturn every Minister responsible could find the money. We paid more than the minimum wage because we retained the wages of the people employed under the programme at the level they had been. That was fine until the current Taoiseach became Minister for Social Protection. Then, hey presto, in 2015 - suddenly and for the first time since the scheme started - the grant did not cover the minimum wage. The Minister says €3 million is a great deal of money. It is a great deal of money to the Department.

Photo of Éamon Ó CuívÉamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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However, it was a mean cut in the Department of Social Protection. The then Minister cut €3 million from the programme out of €20 billion. In fact, when he cut it initially, it was €1.5 million. Will the Minister go back to the Taoiseach, ask for his money back and undo the mean cut that the Taoiseach introduced in 2015?

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Ó Cuív knows that I inherited this scheme on 1 January. A total of €46.2 million came with the scheme. I increased the allocation by €850,000 to bring in 12 new organisations. It was the first call since 2008. There had been no call for new schemes since 2008. Deputy Ó Cuív knows that the period between 2013 and 2015 was difficult for both the economy and the country in general. I inherited this scheme and I have increased the funding for it this year.

I will go back to Government and seek further funding. I am going to have this scheme reviewed. I am going to see what I can do in respect of the minimum wage. However, I am keen to make clear and to put on the record of the Dáil that we are not the employers. We support the schemes. Deputy Ó Cuív is correct. These schemes cover a social aspect that neither Government nor state agencies cover. Without these schemes, we would have a major difficulty so I want to support them. When the review takes place, that is one of the things I will be examining.