Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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The purpose of this Topical Issue matter is to ask the Minister of State, Deputy English, who has responsibility for regeneration, to discuss a social and affordable housing scheme model for two sites in particular, one in St. Michael's Estate and the other in Shanganagh, and that the scheme be publicly funded. The model we are proposing, which we have discussed before, is different from that which is being considered and which has been lauded by the Department for a good while. We propose that the sites be publicly funded to ensure we do not repeat the mistakes of the past and that we do not see, as the community in Inchicore, in particular, has seen, the collapse of the PPP model in St. Michael's Estate. Depending on the private sector left us in the mess we are still suffering from. Depending on it again would leave us at the mercy of those developers who are still plying their trade.

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The model we are talking about brings benefits to the local society and society as a whole. I do not know how much the Minister of State knows about St. Michael's Estate. It was originally Richmond Barracks then Keogh Square. We want to make sure that the next chapter is totally different and that the local authority housing there is affordable to rent and affordable to purchase. Regeneration has been promised for many years and it is not just a question of homes but of society. We do not want to see hopes being built up and dashed again. Our proposal is aimed not only at helping those on the housing and homeless list but also those who are excluded from the housing list who cannot afford the obscene, higher-than-ever rents being demanded everywhere in the city and beyond and who cannot afford a mortgage for the few homes that are for sale because of the runaway prices.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister of State knows we have been strongly critical of the land initiative model being used elsewhere in the city and country. This originated at a time when capital budgets were more constrained and local authorities were desperately trying to find some way to fund public housing. That is no longer the case and, according to the current senior Minister and his predecessor, money is no object and capital investment has increased.

There are very strong arguments why these developments in particular, Shanganah Castle in Dún Laoghaire and St. Michael's Estate in Dublin city, should be taken out of the land initiative funding model and directly funded as part of the capital programme 2019. Publicly funding them would give the Minister much greater control of the tenure mixture and the ratio of affordable and social, or affordable sale, if that is included, would be based on local need, not on what the market can bear. The Minister would have much greater control of the development, particularly the timeline for its delivery. Affordable rent and purchase could be controlled and guaranteed at rates that are genuinely affordable for families with modest incomes. Sinn Féin is strongly of the view that if there are affordable sale options in either of these developments those units can never be sold into the private market and only ever sold back into the affordable scheme.

Shanganah is a unique proposal. It has unanimous support from the elected members of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council as well as the local community. It is well designed and considered and is ready to go. It has applied for stage 1 approval and I would welcome the Minister of State's confirmation of that. It could be up and running by the end of this year, following approval from the Department.

St. Michael's Estate has, unfortunately, despite the enormous campaigning by the local community experienced several failed public private partnership, PPP, regeneration projects. Rather than force it to go through the process again there is a strong argument for leaving it out, as well as concerns about gentrification, given its location. We have made this point privately to the Minister for State and now we are making it publicly. Both of these sites provide unique opportunities for direct public funding for social and affordable, including cost-rental housing and we urge the Minister of State to consider including them in the capital budget 2019.

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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I support what my colleagues have said. The average rent in Dublin is over €1,500 per month, up 56% on 2012. Rents are out of most people's reach as are mortgages on homes. We must use public land better. Public investment in public land is a real part of the solution to our housing problem. Between Shanganah and St. Michael's in Inchicore over 800 units could be delivered. That is more social housing than the Department delivered in all of last year. These are two very significant sites. I know the Minister of State wants to get moving but it is taking far too long. I urge the Minister of State to see where Government stands.

My colleagues have spoken about the mix of housing, rental and affordable. There is no affordable housing scheme. The Oscar Traynor Road, Irish Glass Bottle and O'Devaney Gardens sites are held up because Government has not proceeded with an affordable housing scheme. These are two particular estates that could be worked on quickly. I had the pleasure of meeting the community in St. Michael's Estate, Inchicore with Senator Ardagh. It has been badly let down through the PPP model. There is a strong desire there for new homes for new families which it is fantastic to see when in many other instances people object to new homes for new families. Even Ministers in this Government have done that recently. I ask the Minister of State to strongly consider what has been put forward today across parties, to publicly fund these two schemes, get them up and running, off the ground and deliver homes for new communities.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I have been campaigning for social and affordable housing on the Shanganah site since it was closed down as a prison and transferred to Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, before I was even elected to the Dáil in 2011. It is a matter of immense frustration to me, to the people on the housing list and the people in the area that a publicly owned site is sitting there, which is ideal for housing and could help alleviate a dire housing crisis. People are waiting 15 years and up to 19 years on the housing list.

It is being held up by the Government's obsession with involving the private sector. This is messing everything up. It is tied up with questions of how to make money out of the site and to what extent the private sector is needed and it is just not working. I do not believe in it in the first place and it means nothing is happening.

Now finally there is a consensus across all parties in Dún Laoghaire that this site should be 100% social and affordable. There is some debate about the balance between those two but we can work that out among ourselves. The key issue is that there has to be direct public funding of it. If we have to depend on the private sector it will take forever. We just need to build the houses. The current scheme, in so far as it has been appraised, and which has been proposed and agreed on an all-party basis cannot work or deliver the affordable housing unless we get subsidies from the Government. It brings into question the wider failure of the Government to come up with an affordable housing scheme. For all the talk about one, it has not come up with a mechanism to fund and deliver it.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The biggest hoarder of land in this country is the State. It is hoarding thousands of acres. In St. Michael's Estate in Inchicore this is very obvious as soon as one walks into the square. Where the flats used to be there is a big unsafe space of approximately 12 acres. It is about time we used it because in Dublin South Central there are over 7,000 people on the housing list and in Inchicore approximately 2,000. Those are amazing figures. I recall being a councillor at a time when there were 7,000 people on the housing list for the whole of Dublin city. These figures are startling. Despite the Minister's attempt to disguise the housing figures by saying those who are illegal should not also be registered as homeless, one can be both. Despite his attempt in different ways to disguise the homeless list, it is growing. There were 10,000 on it in April and some 3,755 of them were children. We have a serious problem and the State needs to end the hoarding of land and to use initiatives such as the residents of St. Michael's Estate are proposing to have a cost-rental model that will allow immediate building instead of hoarding the land in the interests of the developers so that the price goes up and the deal can suit private development rather than land for public use. This is public land and the only thing that should go on it is public housing.

We will have to consider a model that will deliver that. I do not know if the Minister of State has read the St. Michael's Estate document but I encourage him to read it. Tremendous work has been done in the community on fair-rent homes. The proposal is to allow people who have jobs and are not eligible to be on the social housing waiting list because they earn too much to be able to rent at an affordable price. The State will continue to own the homes. It is a very sensible model and I think there is cross-party support for it in Inchicore. Would the Minister of State please read it?

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputies for raising the very important issue of the State land bank and the role it is playing and can play in delivering affordable, social and private housing of all types and sizes, on which we are all in agreement. The issue revolves around who will pay for the private part of a development and who will sell the relevant houses.

It is wrong for people to continually say the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, is disguising the homeless figures because that is not the case. He is very honest in that regard, as am I and the departmental officials who are dealing with them. Nobody is trying to disguise them, but if we believe a person is not homeless, we will say so. A person who is living in a house is not counted as being homeless. Others might believe he or she should be counted as such, but we do not. We have engaged with the local authorities to identify who needs intervention from the State and who does not. We must formulate policies to help those most in need. We are doing all we can to ensure the figures are correct. Whether the correct figure is 9,500, 9,800 or 10,000, it is far too many. That is the reason we are here week after week debating the issue. I, therefore, ask Members to stop saying the Minister is disguising the figures because he is not. That is not what he is about. He is trying to find solutions.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister is sensitive.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Increasing and accelerating housing delivery, particularly social and affordable housing, are at the heart of the Government's action plan for housing and homelessness, Rebuilding Ireland, which I accept and acknowledge is everyone's motivation. The two sites referred to are key housing authority assets that must be mobilised for the sustainable development of Dublin as a whole. They are key sites that can be used to deliver a lot of houses. I have visited both sites and recognise their importance in the delivery of housing.

While the development of residential land in housing authority ownership is, in the first Instance, a matter for the local authority concerned, including its elected members, we need to see new social and affordable homes realised from State housing land without delay, with particular emphasis on prioritising sites, including those mentioned, with the greatest potential to deliver housing at scale in the short to medium term. Both sites fit into that category. The issue is how we can develop them as quickly as possible. Like others, I am frustrated by the lengthy delays in developing some of the sites. We need to find ways to develop them a lot quicker.

St. Michael's estate is one of three significant sites being developed by Dublin City Council under its housing land initiative, the aim of which is to ensure the delivery of mixed tenure homes in the Dublin City Council functional area. It envisages the potential to yield a minimum of 420 mixed tenure homes and the elected members of the council have determined that they will be provided on a 30% social, 20% affordable and 50% private tenure mix basis. I understand a general discussion in that regard is under way. Most people acknowledge the need to provide affordable, social and private housing. I think I am correct in saying most Members present want to see some private housing on the sites mentioned, but the issue is who should build them. Given the strategic importance of St. Michael's estate, my Department is working very closely with the city council on its optimum development. I am conscious of the motion recently received from the city council which is being reviewed and discussed. I was asked by Deputy Eoin Ó Broin to meet the residents on the site, which I did. The Minister was also asked to visit the site and did so earlier today when he met local residents. I have not yet had an opportunity to discuss the matter with him. It is a great site which is located beside the Luas and in the heart of the city. We are all determined to deliver a top class housing project on it.

Shanganagh Castle is another great site which is also located near amenities and public transport services. It is very positive that the members of Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council have come together on a cross-party basis with a view to achieving the optimal outcome on the site which can deliver over 500 new homes on a mixed tenure basis. I acknowledge that Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett has been campaigning on the issue for many years. My Department has met council officials on a number of occasions, including on site, to discuss the optimum development approach. Woodbrook-Shanganagh is a designated major urban housing delivery site and in recognition of this my Department is keen to support its development and has committed funding of just over €4 million from the local infrastructure housing activation fund, LIHAF, to build public infrastructure which will open up the site for earlier development.

On the delivery of affordable homes on the two sites, it is ultimately a matter for the elected members of the councils to decide whether the homes should be affordable for purchase or cost rental. I firmly believe there is a need to ensure the rental sector, particularly in cities and major urban areas, is accessible and affordable. We are all agreed that the sector is not where it needs to be. To this end, we need to invest in a different rental offering, a so-called cost rental

sector which operates between the social and private market sectors. We are learning from pilot projects and the examination of similar models elsewhere. We are working with the European Investment Bank and other key stakeholders with a view to announcing shortly the first major cost rental project in Dublin city, with a broader programme of cost rental projects across Dublin and other cities to follow. The key issue is how we can stretch available resources to maximise these public developments. That is what we are trying to do.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It needs to happen urgently. On the land initiative, as proposed, I believe it is the public private partnership, PPP, model dressed up. The State needs to get a handle on housing proposals. The proposals put forward by Sinn Féin and others, including my colleague, Councillor Shane O'Brien, in dealing with the Shanganagh Castle site, bypass the private developer-led models in favour of a method of delivering social and affordable purchase and rental homes on these two key sites. I will go further and argue that such development should take place on all sites, but these are two sites which, if developed, would show the Government and private developers that the State was willing to intervene when necessary to deliver homes to those who deserved them. This model needs to be pursued urgently.

Eoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
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It is not for the Dáil to get into the details of either scheme. Rather, this is a matter for the communities concerned and their local elected representatives and the councils. They are unique sites on which there is strong local community involvement. There is strong political consensus in both areas for the proposals we are putting forward.

The Minister of State's reply is disappointing in that it does not tell us anything different from what he has been saying up to now on this matter. I ask him to respond to the following specific questions. Will he consider taking the two projects out of the land initiative model? Will he consider funding directly the two projects, either through Exchequer funding by way of the capital programme or by approving local authority access to Housing Finance Agency loans to proceed? Has Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council applied for stage 1 approval for such a project in Shanganagh Castle and will the Minister of State actively consider the request of all of the elected representatives in these two areas at local authority level to fund the projects publicly to ensure the best quality social, economic, residential and community dividend?

Darragh O'Brien (Dublin Fingal, Fianna Fail)
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In his reply the Minister of State referenced the fact that these are great sites, but nothing is being delivered. They present a real opportunity for the delivery of significant housing in Inchicore and Shanganagh. Like Deputy Eoin Ó Broin, I want to know if the Minister of State will consider direct funding. They projects require direct funding to get them off the ground. The Dáil cannot, nor should it, micro manage every social and affordable housing site, but as a flagship project response to the housing crisis, these can be two very significant sites. I have discussed the matter at length with my colleagues, Senator Catherine Ardagh and Councillor Cormac Devlin. There is cross-party support in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown for this to happen.

On investment by the credit union movement, which was approved on 1 February, there has been no move on the part of the Department in the utilisation of credit union funding. Credit Union funding could also be looked at for the projects. I would like to know if the Minister of State will consider directly funding the projects from the Exchequer and perhaps partnering with the credit unions.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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As I said, the Shanganagh Castle site could deliver 540 social and affordable homes. I have been campaigning on the issue for six or seven years, but nothing is happening. Two of my colleagues, Councillors Lisa Halpin and Hugh Lewis, put forward the first motion calling for social and affordable housing on the site. There is cross-party support on the issue. The question now is whether the Department will fund it or allow the local authority to access the finance to do so. I have made a proposal in that regard. We need departmental officials who can make decisions to sit down with Deputies, council officials and cross-party representative of the political parties to identify the blockages. That is all we need to do. Instead of continuous engagement backwards and forwards on who is to be blame, blockages and so on such that the issue is lost in communication and nothing happens, we need people who can make decisions. Will the Minister of State agree to a meeting of all of the major stakeholders to iron out what needs to be done to deliver housing?

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister of State said the elected members of Dublin City Council had determined that the homes in St. Michael's estate would be provided on a 30% social, 20 affordable and 50% private tenure mix basis. The residents of St. Michael's estate and the community association in the area are actively campaigning against this proposal in favour of a cost rental model. The Minister of State also said he was working with the European Investment Bank and other key stakeholders with a view to announcing the first major cost rental project in Dublin. Will he tell the House the location of the project and spell out how it would work?

If it is not St. Michael's Estate, why would the Minister of State not choose St. Michael's Estate?

The Minister of State, Deputy English said that we are all in favour of private housing so people can buy housing. I agree absolutely, but on public land it should be public housing. We obsess all the time about social mix in areas such as Inchicore but one would never hear an obsession with social mix in areas such as Foxrock or Castleknock because where there is a lot of wealth they are not worried about social mix. I do not believe we should obsess about social mix in the way that we do in areas like Inchicore. The cost rental model will deal with the fact that it could provide for people who are working and earning.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I want to clarify that Deputy Smith is not the only voice in Inchicore looking for housing projects, and not everyone would agree with the Deputy in this regard. We strongly believe that the best use of publicly owned land is a combination of public housing through social, affordable and private accommodation use. Most people here would agree that the concept is right but the big question mark is around how we fund it. Deputy Smith wants only social housing. I do not believe that is best planning. I agree with the Deputy that areas with not enough social housing should be corrected also, but it is about getting the balance right. The days are gone, however, when social housing was put into just one area and private housing was put in another area. This is not what the Department is trying to achieve.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I call for public housing.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy keeps saying public housing-----

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Housing that could be rented out to people who are working.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister of State, please, without interruption.

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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I understand that, but the best use of State-owned lands is accommodation for all. The question that we are asked most is whether we are open to different models of funding. With every site the State owns we have asked the local authority to bring in all the different concepts for that land. They have all brought in their plans for delivery of social, affordable and private accommodation. We look at every option available to deliver those sites. I did not meet the residents this morning. The Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy has met them. We will look at every option for how we can best deliver housing as quickly as possible and how we can stretch taxpayers' money as much as we can from a capital perspective.

These sites should have houses on them. I see Deputy Smith nodding and shaking her head. I agree that there should be houses on these sites and we have to find a way to move this on. It has been stuck in the system but this is what we are trying to do. We have changed the system to allow the sites to move forward a lot quicker. A lot of effort has gone into working with local authorities. There is engagement. Under the direction of the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, the housing delivery team and I have engaged directly with local authority officials and councillors, site by site, to see how we can make these decisions, remove barriers and move on. We can do this on those sites also. There has been enragement there, the Minister has been out there again, and-----

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Will the Ministers please just do it and involve us?

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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It is the officials and the councillors who will make the decisions. Some of the councillors are from the Deputies' own background and are part of that conversation also. We will look at every option to get these houses delivered.

With regard to credit unions providing funds, the changes were made to allow this. I met the credit unions recently. We want them to be involved in housing projects. We have explained to them how they can do this. It is about being able to fund projects off balance sheet. The credit unions are finding ways to partner up and they are engaging with some of the approved housing bodies. They are interested and the credit union money is there. It is not the €8 billion that people say credit unions have, but they do have a lot of funds available. We are very interested in having them on board, along with other bodies that want to fund houses, and we have made this very clear to them. We will do this site by site and will look at all suggestions.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Will the Minister of State answer my question on the first major cost rental model-----

Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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There is no site picked yet-----

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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There is no site picked yet.