Declan Breathnach (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the Minister. I have brought this issue of the closure of the social protection office in Dunleer to the floor of the Chamber in order to seek definitive information in respect of the future of the Dunleer clinic. We have heard the words "no ambiguity" and "no misinformation" and, in that context, I want to put forward my understanding of the situation and ask the Minister to respond.

I and other Deputies received correspondence on 26 March from the Intreo office in Drogheda indicating to us, as a matter of courtesy, that the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection wished to advise that, due to accommodation issues, the Dunleer community welfare service clinic would cease with immediate effect. I understood from the letter what the problems were, I inquired about them, and I have to accept and respect there had been difficulties with regard to health and safety in what is a HSE office, in addition to the need for it to be refurbished. The information that was relayed to us in the letter was that the community welfare officer "will be available to carry out a home visit", and that this element of the service was always available and would continue to be. The letter stated that the community welfare officer would be available and flexible in the event of an emergency and that customers would be facilitated. The letter further stated that, to ensure a smooth transition, the Department was communicating with all customers concerned regarding the operational changes and that there would be no changes to current payment arrangements.

Everybody accepted that in good faith. The issue is that the HSE is of the opinion that it needs an outreach service there, despite the fact it has an excellent facility at Clogherhead and plans for the expansion of the facility at Castlebellingham, although that is not the Minister's brief. I am reliably informed that for a small investment between the HSE and the Department, the existing building that has a problem could be turned into a proper one-stop shop or, if that is not possible, other issues could be explored. The reality is that the people of Dundalk, Drogheda and Ardee have this type of office facility. I am sure the Minister will point out, as she indicated in her response to me yesterday, that there were only five people availing of this service and the numbers were small. That is fine for a snapshot in time. However, I am informed that due to the seasonality of work and other issues particular to the mid-Louth area, that figure could swell to 15 or 20. While I respect the view of the Minister and the Department in regard to providing outreach services and constant contact, we all know that when a service is minimised or closed, the commitment to that service wanes over time. I firmly believe there is a strong need for the provision of an office in Dunleer.

My main reason for raising the issue is that I want no ambiguity and I want nobody to be misinformed. I have the transcript of what the Minister said on this issue and I will read it out in my response if she does not adequately answer the question, given she indicated this was a temporary arrangement.

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I hate to start off by addressing the tone of the insinuations the Deputy has just made. I hope he clarifies them and, when he does-----

Declan Breathnach (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I sure will.

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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-----I would advise him to be exceptionally careful. That is all I will say to him at first.

This is the fourth time we are having this conversation. To put it on the record of the House, just in case the Deputy missed it the three other times we have had the conversation, my Department operated an outreach community welfare service clinic from the HSE premises in Dunleer every Wednesday from 10 a.m. to 12 noon. On average, there are seven customers who look for those services in that area. The condition of the premises was very poor and the HSE withdrew its staff last year. Thereafter, the community welfare service was the only public service delivered from the centre.

On 21 March this year the HSE informed the Department that the condition of the building had rapidly deteriorated and now posed a serious health and safety risk to customers and staff. Local management had no option but to suspend the outreach service immediately. As the Deputy will be well aware, given my parliamentary question response to him on Wednesday of last week and in correspondence sent to him by my office on 26 March, my Department has taken immediate steps to minimise any inconvenience to customers who after all are the people at the centre of the service we deliver.

Other social protection services, such as jobseeker payments, are dealt with by the Drogheda Intreo centre and the Ardee branch office. Notices were posted directing the seven customers to the Drogheda Intreo centre, which is 15 km away on a main bus route. The community welfare service there is available on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday each week, and from Ardee health centre on Tuesday and Friday, so it is a good complement for people who require the services of those centres. Customers have also been provided with a phone service staffed by experienced community welfare service personnel in Drogheda and Ardee. The phone service is available to our seven clients every day, while the clinic is only open for two hours on a Wednesday morning. If a customer is unable to visit either of the centres, for example, due to illness, arrangements can be and have been made by Department staff to conduct a home visit.

The Department is closely monitoring the impact of the closure. While it is early days, the new arrangements appear to be working quite well. Feedback on the telephone service has been overwhelmingly positive from customers, if not from local Deputies, which is good to hear. I will repeat for the third time to the Deputy that the majority of queries have been resolved over the phone and most customers have been very happy to have avoided otherwise unnecessary visits to the old clinic in Dunleer. For example, on 28 March, of the six calls received, four were for information purposes, with only two customers requiring a meeting with the designated person; on 4 April, of the six calls received, five were for information purposes and one was for a meeting; during the week ending 13 April, seven calls were received, six of which were for information purposes and one from a person who required a meeting; during the week ending 20 April, 12 calls were received, of which ten were for general information purposes and two required a meeting with the Department, and both people attended the Ardee community welfare service on that occasion.

The HSE does not intend to renovate the premises in Dunleer but my Department is currently examining the feasibility of providing the community welfare service from alternative premises in Dunleer, as I originally stated to the Deputy in the letter I sent to him by post on 26 March. Following representations from local public representatives, including Deputies Fergus O'Dowd and Peter Fitzpatrick, I and my Department received an offer to host the community welfare service in a local community hall. An architect from the OPW has visited the premises to ascertain its suitability to deliver a public service and the measures that would need to be put in place to facilitate this, as well as indicative timelines and associated cost. Local management is also exploring other options to enhance the provision of the community welfare service across the county.

In the meantime, any of the seven existing customers and any people who may in future require the service in the area should contact the dedicated phone lines at 041-9815278 or 086-7953253. I trust this clarifies the matter for the Deputy without any ambiguity.

Declan Breathnach (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister referred to the tone I am using. I am using that tone because there is frustration out there in regard to the massaging of closures, not just in this instance but, as I noted earlier, in regard to the closure of other offices, with the suggestion that this is due to shortage of staff. The reality is that I and other Deputies sought clarification from the Minister. The Minister told me to be careful so I will read the transcript of her remarks. I am delighted she said she is looking at alternatives because that is not what she told me in the Dáil yesterday and not what she indicated in her conversations, nor is it what was indicated in the Department's conversations and Intreo's conversations with the Deputies in regard to what was happening. On LMFM, the Minister said:

The service hasn't been closed down. We were in a position where we were operating our weekly community welfare service to the people in the Dunleer office in a HSE-owned building and we received notification from the HSE that the building was no longer fit for purpose and we couldn't use it any more. The service will continue. There is a very small number of people accessing the service and they are being redirected temporarily to their nearest local office. If they are not in a position to go to that local office, and some people are not, our community welfare staff will go out to them and we will continue to provide the service until we find another, more suitable premises.

That was the clarification I sought. I sought it again yesterday, and I am delighted that the Minister has indicated what she is doing. It gives clarity to the people with whom she has been miscommunicating, namely, the Deputies. The information that was communicated to all the Deputies in Louth by Intreo, not by the Minister, told us that the facilities were not being continued. The people in mid-Louth will be delighted with the Minister's response.

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I am at pains to conclude because I am not sure what allegations the Deputy is actually making. In the first instance, he tried to claim that I am misleading people; and now he is saying that it is not me but the Intreo staff.

Declan Breathnach (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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It is one or the other. They are the Minister's staff.

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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Let us be really clear. The services were never closed. The office was not fit for staff to work in and it had to be closed down, but the service continues. Moreover, that was on a temporary basis. We have no intention of closing down the service. The insinuation at the beginning of Deputy Breathnach's second speech-----

Declan Breathnach (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I am holding the Minister to account.

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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-----is that this is closing the service by stealth. I ask him to take that off the record of this House, because he has absolutely no basis in fact to make that statement. We were exceptionally clear when we made our first statement. We were removed from this building only because it was not safe to be in, either for the clients or my staff. We told Deputy Breathnach at the time that we would continue the service for the seven clients, which we have done. I have detailed to Deputy Breathnach exactly what has happened week-on-week. We told the Deputy at the time that we would start to look for alternative premises, which is exactly what we did do and are doing. I am really not sure what part of that is not clear, but I do not expect Deputy Breathnach, an elected representative from the constituency of Louth, to make erroneous allegations just so that he can put this exchange on Facebook for his constituents. He is better than that. He really is.

Declan Breathnach (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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So is the Minister.