Dáil debates

Tuesday, 27 February 2018

2:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The roll-out and launch of the national development plan have been by far the most expensive and extensive ever undertaken by a Government. The role of the strategic communications unit, SCU, which the Taoiseach established and whose head he selected, must come under the closest of scrutiny and most comprehensive of reviews. The SCU-directed campaign has, either advertently or inadvertently, politicised elements of the Civil Service, whether we like it or care to admit it. The campaign represents an abuse of taxpayers' money. Government advertisements or funding of the media should be at arm's length and should not be used for party political or electoral objectives. The Civil Service code in this regard has been breached as a result of this campaign.

If one reads the Longford Leader, Limerick Leader or Roscommon Herald, for example, one will see advertisements masquerading as news articles, with Fine Gael Party candidates prominent in them. Some are not members of the Government or even Members of the Oireachtas but election candidates. A double page spread in the Sunday Worldfeatures Senator Gabrielle McFadden and places emphasis on Athlone. The Minister of State, Deputy Kevin Boxer Moran, features but not to the same degree as Senator McFadden. Again, this is a clear electoral pitch by any yardstick. It is meant to be an advertisement informing members of the public about the national planning framework or national development plan. In essence, however, it is the use of taxpayers' money to advance and promote Fine Gael election candidates. One sees the same trend in other constituencies in terms of trying to identify key marginal constituencies and promoting issues that affect them.

We have an independent media, thanks be to God, which is essential to the health of our democracy. Speaking truth to power is an essential prerequisite of this. The media need revenue and the Fianna Fáil Party does not have any difficulty with advertisements that are clearly identified as such. Media content partnerships between government and the media should be fully transparent. In that context, one local editor told The Times,Ireland edition:

This is fake news. Newspapers are struggling and the government know that, so they've got us by the..."

Parliamentary decency prevents me from finishing the sentence. Regional newspapers were instructed to make Government advertorials look like independent stories and, in some cases, part of the normal news cycle.

I have some basic questions. Last week the Taoiseach was asked the estimated cost of this campaign. Will he outline to the House what it has cost and the overall estimated cost? Does he accept that there has been a blurring of lines in how all of this has transpired, that it has involved politicisation of the staff of the strategic communications unit and that, essentially, the entire promotion has been about Fine Gael's electoral advancement?

2:05 pm

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The strategic communications unit operates at arm's length from me and the rest of the Government. It is a Civil Service-staffed entity which operates at arm's length. It does so in accordance with the Civil Service code. That is the case. On the Deputy's assertion that it has been the most expensive public information campaign run by a Government, that is absolutely not the case. From the records I have, the most expensive one was run by the Fianna Fáil-Green Party coalition, the "Change" campaign which dealt with the Government's climate change agenda. It cost €15 million. The public relations campaign for Transport 21, again when the Deputy was a member of the Government, cost €3 million. This campaign will cost approximately €1.5 million, half the cost of the Transport 21 campaign and one tenth of the cost of the "Change" campaign.

Photo of Eamon RyanEamon Ryan (Dublin Bay South, Green Party)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We did not stick our councillors into the campaign.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have said before and will say again that good communication is a virtue. It is right and proper that the Government should be able to inform the public about what it is doing, what is happening, how public money is being spent and how it is acting in the people's interest. I often meet people who say to me that the Government is not communicating correctly or not getting its message across and that we need to do more in that field to ensure the people are fully aware of what it is doing. I also know what the Deputy is doing. He does not want people to talk about Project Ireland 2040 or the good plan we have published to improve the country and upgrade infrastructure in the coming years. That is what we produced as a plan for the next 20 years, backed up by a ten-year infrastructural investment plan running to €116 billion.

Photo of Eoin Ó BroinEoin Ó Broin (Dublin Mid West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Stick to the subject.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Last week the Deputy did not want to talk about it; instead he wanted to talk about process and procedure. This week he wants to talk about the public information campaign because he does not want the people to hear about the plan. He does not want them to hear about the Government's vision to make the country a better place.

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach does not want to answer the question.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy does not want to hear about the €116 billion being invested. The Government is delivering infrastructure. Yesterday the Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris, opened two new primary care centres in Coolock and County Kildare.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Tell that to those who are waiting for broadband.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are now 110 primary care centres and there were only 40 when the party I lead took office. This morning on the way to work I passed the new paediatric unit at Connolly Hospital.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

How long did it take the Taoiseach to get in?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is now up to its third storey. Within the next couple of weeks the new Luas trams will arrive, making them longer.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Tell that to the people of Galway who are stuck in traffic every day.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

This is about pure politics from the Deputy's perspective. We have produced Project Ireland 2040, a €116 billion plan to invest in and improve infrastructure-----

Photo of Paul MurphyPaul Murphy (Dublin South West, Solidarity)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

As the Taoiseach has only 20 seconds left, he is nearly there.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Where will he be in 2040?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----including roads, rail, health care, housing, transport and all of the really important elements. Last week the Deputy wished to speak about process, but this week he wants to talk about the public information campaign.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Fake news.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The one thing he does not want to do is speak about the issues.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I asked very straight questions and have been asking them of the Taoiseach for the past three to four months, long before the publication of any national development plan. The strategic communications unit is about the promotion of the Taoiseach's good self and his party. That is the point. It is unprecedented. There are 15 staff in the unit. I asked the Taoiseach a very simple question about Fine Gael election candidates appearing in Government advertisements paid for by the taxpayer. It is about the ethics of it. Will he, please, answer that question?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What is the question?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The question is about how Fine Gael candidates end up in a Government advertisement paid for by the taxpayer. It is not the function of the taxpayer to fund advertisements for Fine Gael election candidates.

Photo of Colm BrophyColm Brophy (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Fianna Fáil Ministers used to appear in such campaigns and advertisements.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Some of them are not even Members of the Oireachtas and they are certainly not members of the Government. This is not about process; it is fundamental and goes to the heart of democracy and how our system works. The Civil Service should be completely devoid of politics. There is absolutely no way the Fine Gael website had every single item of the national development plan, chapter and verse, before the Cabinet's decision without some involvement of the strategic communications unit. To suggest otherwise defies any logical explanation. I put that to the Taoiseach last week and he has avoided that fundamental question week after week.

It is not the function of Government officials or any taxpayer-funded campaign to advance the electoral fortunes of any political party.

2:15 pm

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy's time is up.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is about time the Taoiseach faced up to that. He has blurred the lines and is going down a dangerous route which has, ultimately, the potential to corrupt our democratic process itself. It is about time he saw that.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The answer to the Deputy's question is "No". We have already explained how this works. The communications unit entered into media partnerships with media organisations. What happens there is that-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Have the terms been published?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----those organisations have editorial control over content. Nobody in the unit suggested any particular person should be interviewed and nobody in the unit had any editorial sign off on the articles before they were published. Those were done by the media.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There must be sign off. It is taxpayer's money.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No, they do not.

Photo of Colm BrophyColm Brophy (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Relax, relax.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Publish the partnership agreements.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Let the Taoiseach respond please.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is always evident when people do not want to hear the answer because it does not suit them. The unit had no role in proposing or selecting people for interview, it did not interview anyone and it did not have final sign off on the editorial content.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They were all on the Fine Gael canvas.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That was signed off by the editors of the publications concerned.

However, it is appropriate that any sponsored content should clearly show it is sponsored content. I have emphasised that in the past and I will do so again. If someone is interviewed, as a general rule, they should be told they are being interviewed for a commercial feature.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank the Taoiseach. His time is up.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

That is the editorial policy.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Ah, yes.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is one thing to be getting a lecture from Fianna Fáil about this sort of thing. I refer to the national development plan advertisement.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is an advertisement.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It is an advertisement. It says "commercial feature".

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It does not say "commercial feature". It says "public information".

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No, no.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

What we have is a banner on the top saying "national development plan", just like we had for Project Ireland 2040.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Time is up.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It does not mention the Government of Ireland whatsoever. The first thing is a big feature, an opinion editorial with a picture of Mr. Brian Cowen. In the corner, we have a nice little picture of Deputy Micheál Martin------

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

It was in the Roscommon newspapers.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach is not in order.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

-----and on the next page we have a picture of Mr. Bertie Ahern. In the one fromThe Irish Times, it is the same thing again.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can the Taoiseach restrain himself from-----

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There is another opinion editorial with Mr. Brian Cowen's picture and an even bigger picture of Deputy Micheál Martin. This is fromThe Limerick Chronicle.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Again, it says "public information" and "national development plan".There is nothing about the Government of Ireland whatsoever.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Please.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

On the back of this we have an article from the-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

No. Sorry, Taoiseach-----

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

There are quotes from third parties.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Taoiseach, please.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Check the line, Taoiseach.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy is not in a position to be giving lectures.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The rules of the House apply to the Taoiseach and Deputy Micheál Martin equally, so please respect-----

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach does not obey any rules.

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Deputy, I do not need any assistance. I call Deputy McDonald.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Follow that, as they say.

In this very important week, I want to raise the issue of Brexit. Tomorrow and the next day, we will see the text that will give effect to the agreement struck between the European Union and the British Government last December. The Taoiseach will recall at the time of its publication we acknowledged some political progress had been made. However, we raised a series of contradictions inherent in that agreement at the time and I want to place them again on the record of the House.

The first contradiction was the claim there would be no hard border on the island of Ireland but yet the North would be taken out of the customs union and the Single Market. The second contradiction was the assertion there would be no threat to the Good Friday Agreement against the fact there are 142 areas of all-Ireland co-operation that could be adversely affected by Brexit. Contradiction number three was the claim there would be no erosion in the rights of citizens living in the North as against the fact the British are determined to withdraw from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

The fourth is that although the North voted to remain in the European Union that decision has been set aside by the British Government, the DUP and others.

In the conversion of December's political agreement into a legally binding withdrawal text it is critical that these contradictions are resolved. That is the only way to achieve clarity and certainty for our people, the all-Ireland economy and for our agreements. That means the text must explicitly state that there will be no Brexit border on the island, and the only way to guarantee this is by the North remaining inside the customs union and the Single Market. The text must explicitly protect the Good Friday Agreement in all its parts and it must make clear in substance that there will be no loss of rights for citizens. The Tánaiste met with Mr. Michel Barnier in Brussels yesterday and he has seen the draft legal text. He is quoted widely today as saying that he is more than satisfied that the Irish Government and the EU are of one mind on the draft text.

Have those four contradictions been resolved? The Taoiseach said previously that this country cannot take a leap into the dark when dealing with matters connected with Brexit, and I agree with him. Can the Taoiseach confirm, therefore, that the text we will see resolves all the issues I have set out and, in real terms, represents the legal protection and guarantees we need?

2:25 pm

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am satisfied it does. The draft withdrawal agreement will be published in Brussels tomorrow at 12 noon. Obviously, I am not at liberty to give detail of it here today, but it will be available for people to see at 12 noon tomorrow. The Tánaiste met with Mr. Michel Barnier yesterday to indicate our satisfaction with the text and I spoke by telephone to the Prime Minister, Mrs. May, last night.

The Deputy is aware of the background to all of this. The United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union. Almost immediately afterwards we sought an assurance from the United Kingdom that there would be no hard border and that everything possible would be done to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. We got that verbal assurance last year. We then sought to have that written down in black and white and made into a political agreement. We got that political agreement last December. Since then we have sought to turn the black and white text of the political agreement and commitment into a legal text which forms a protocol to the withdrawal agreement. The Deputy will see that legal text tomorrow.

I am satisfied that it sets down in law how we can avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. As I said last December, there are three options for how to do that. The first is in the context of a new close relationship between the UK and the EU. That is our absolute preference. We do not want a border between the North and the South any more than we want a border in the Irish Sea between east and west. The second option, or option B, is the British bespoke solutions which they have yet to outline, but we look forward to seeing them when they have completed them. The third option, option C, is the fall-back option, or last resort as the Prime Minister, Mrs. May, prefers to describe it. That is outlined in legal form in the withdrawal agreement being published tomorrow in Brussels. However, that withdrawal agreement is a draft text and we cannot automatically assume it will be acceptable to the United Kingdom or to all the parties in Northern Ireland. We could have an interesting few weeks ahead of us, as was the case last December. It will have to become a legal text by October this year.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Can I therefore assume that the text allows for the North remaining within the customs union and the Single Market, or can I put such a direct question? I recall that last December the Taoiseach sought to assure people that the agreement struck was cast iron and watertight, but in the days following the announcement it became abundantly clear that it was anything but.

Doubt was shed as to the strength of the agreement. This is quite straightforward. To protect the Good Friday Agreement, as well as the livelihoods, jobs, commerce and the economy of the island, we need the North to remain within the customs union and the Single Market. Will the Taoiseach tell us directly whether the text we will see tomorrow allows, provides for and legally underpins that?

2:30 pm

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy will see the text tomorrow. It will be published at 12 noon. I am not at liberty, for reasons I am sure the Deputy will appreciate, to go through it here today. However, I will organise briefings for the party leaders tomorrow to ensure they or their spokespeople are fully apprised of it as soon as we are at liberty to talk about its contents.

The term, which appears in the joint report and the political agreement made back in December, is that in the backstop scenario, the option C scenario, the United Kingdom will ensure that Northern Ireland maintains full regulatory alignment with the European Union, thus allowing for us to avoid a hard border. The protocol to the withdrawal agreement, which will be published tomorrow, details exactly how that can be done.

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I have a petition circulated to every Teachta Dála and Minister in the House from the workers at Irish Life who are about to take a ballot on strike action over their defined benefit pension scheme. I believe the Taoiseach has not signed it yet but I hope he will. It asks every Teachta Dála and Senator to recognise the absolute injustice being done by a company, which is solvent and very well off with a €240 million surplus in its defined benefit scheme, where it has withdrawn from talks and reduced its defined benefit scheme to the mercy of the casino stock markets while pushing its 1,000 workers into a defined contribution scheme.

We saw recently the turmoil in the stock market. This morning we were arguing about the plans the Government has made to ensure we all have a good future. When workers are left to the mercy of the gambling casino of the stock market, it means they have no guarantee of a good future. Indeed, they could be paying all their working lives into a pension scheme to find at the end of it, because of the behaviour of those who gamble, they will have no pension at all. We do not want to drive any more people into poverty or workers into worse conditions.

What does the Taoiseach think of companies like Irish Life, which out of the pure greed of making more profits, will withdraw, without any discussion, from such a scheme, leaving 1,000 workers at the mercy of the market? It is significant in the case of Irish Life because it administers most of the other pension schemes which exist in this country. There are over 100,000 workers on defined benefit schemes who will also feel extremely vulnerable if Irish Life gets away with this. When these workers vote to take strike action and stand up for themselves, I hope the Taoiseach and his Cabinet will support their petition. This goes to the heart of who is standing up for decent planning, justice and equality. If we throw these workers to the mercy of the market, more will follow. Will the Taoiseach condemn Irish Life for unilaterally withdrawing from a defined benefit scheme and forcing these workers to take action against the company?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I am afraid I do not have the details of the particular defined benefit pension scheme to which the Deputy referred.

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Taoiseach was sent the petition on this matter.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Deputy knows how pensions operate and pensions law. It is the trustees of the pension fund who make the decisions about the pension fund, not the employer or the members, subject to the rules laid down by the Pensions Authority. A covenant or deed of trust will set out the obligations and rights of the employer and others. Everything falls under trust law in that regard.

Trustees have a responsibility to pensioners and future pensioners to ensure whatever pension fund exists is solvent. We could not have a situation whereby people would continue to pay into a pension fund, some people would get a full pension, but then, at a certain point when the money ran out, those retiring thereafter, having paid too, would get nothing.

That is not a situation that is right or fair.

I agree with the Deputy that employers should not withdraw unilaterally from any discussion on amendments to a pension fund in resolving a pension fund issue. We have mechanisms, including the Workplace Relations Commission, through which disputes such as this can be adjudicated on. It may be an option in this case for it to be referred to the Workplace Relations Commission and have it resolved there without a strike. If that is an option, I am sure the Deputy will agree with me that there should not be a strike until the matter has been considered by the Workplace Relations Commission. If employers are going to make changes, they should give adequate notice of any change to the members. The Minister, Deputy Regina Doherty, is working on laws to strengthen the protections for members of defined benefit schemes. Work on it is advanced, although it does run into genuine difficulties. One of the proposals made is to make employers liable for any deficit that may arise in a pension scheme. The difficulty in doing so, of course, is that it might result in putting a company out of business which would cause unemployment. Workers might receive their pensions, but they would lose their jobs long before they received their pensions. As well as that, it could hobble other companies and put them at a disadvantage in dealing with their competitors. There are overlapping issues which all need to be seen in the round.

2:35 pm

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The fact that the Minister, Deputy Regina Doherty, has legislation on this issue before the House indicates that a Cabinet concern that defined benefit schemes are being treated recklessly by employers. Previously, AIB, Aer Lingus and BT unilaterally moved away from defined benefit schemes. That is why various parties in the House have legislation to try to control reckless companies that, even when their pension schemes are not in trouble, move away from defined benefit schemes and reduce workers' rights by pushing them into defined contribution schemes. Workers have paid €20 million into the Pensions Authority for it to protect their rights and future pensions. However, this means that they are not being protected. When will the legislation be brought before the House in order that we can amend it to make it more robust? In the meantime, would it not be prudent for the Taoiseach or the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection to call on Irish Life to desist in its move away from a defined benefit scheme until we have had published and a chance to discuss proper legislation to controls reckless profit-making companies?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister is very advanced in producing legislation in this area in the form of amendments to the existing Social Welfare, Pensions and Civil Registration Bill that is before the Houses. The legislation will require employers to give adequate notice and establish a dispute solving mechanism, perhaps involving the Pensions Authority. We need to bear in mind the enormous risks that could arise in making employers legally responsible for any deficit in a pension fund. That could result in the loss of jobs if it were to make a company insolvent or impose big losses on it. In other cases, it could hobble companies. For example, a company that has big investment plans - the Deputy referred to such plans - might find that it could no longer have those plans if its balance sheet was changed fundamentally from being one that enabled it to borrow to invest to one that did not enable it to do so because a pension liability had been included in it. We need to bear all of these things in mind. We always debate two laws in this House - the law in front of us and the law of unintended consequences. Therefore, we need to make sure we get it right.

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

Almost two years ago to the day, with like-minded colleagues on this side of the House, I was given a mandate to enter the Dáil and effect change in dealing with a number of critical issues, including health, housing and public transport. We entered the Dáil knowing that the health service was in disarray, under pressure and bursting at the seams. That is what led to the setting up of the cross-party committee that produced the Sláintecare report last May. However, there was no action following the report and no sense of urgency until, when under pressure on 12 January, eight months after the report had been produced, an announcement was made on a recruitment process. Simultaneously, we were told about the results of the capacity review which told us what we all knew, that there was an urgent need for more beds. Like me, none of my colleagues expected solutions overnight, given the long background of health service underfunding, but we certainly expected to see a sense of urgency.

I am asking the Taoiseach to come with me on a journey to Galway city in the next two minutes. We had 46 people waiting on trolleys today and 52 yesterday, which was the second highest in the country. Every second day we have the highest number in the country. We know from Dr. Hickey and other very experienced clinicians that this leads to 350 to 400 deaths per year. In Galway the hospital is at crisis point. Lack of capacity is number one on the risk register. There was a leak in its sister hospital in Merlin Park on 4 September 2017, which has been raised by me and other Deputies in the Chamber. We were told repairs would take a few weeks. On 13 September, there was a further leak and we were told engineers and architects had been appointed. We were told it would only be a matter of weeks. During that time, the hospital was told to look at alternative arrangements, including capacity, if any, in the hospital, which was already bursting at the seams, capacity in the private hospitals, or any other way it could source alternative care.

It is now six months later and the two theatres remain closed. They have been repaired. However, a clinical review has told us they are no longer suitable. The design is not compatible with modern standards. Modular theatres are promised for next October, 13 months after the water first poured into the two theatres in Galway. On average, 60 patients were scheduled and 160 have been seen in the hospital. No other alternative arrangements have been made. Just under 1,500 patients are waiting for knee and hip replacements and surgeries. We have been told one solution and it has not happened. We have been given various scenarios that have not happened. We have had linguistic gymnastics while people awaiting hip and knee surgeries have no idea about gymnastics. I am asking the Taoiseach to take a hands-on approach and to clarify, today or as soon as possible, when the two theatres that have been closed, scandalously, for more than six months will reopen.

2:45 pm

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I acknowledge the enormous disruption that has been caused for some patients and to our health services in Galway as a result of the works that have been carried out at Merlin Park University Hospital. These have been done in the interest of the health and safety of patients and staff. I am informed by the Minister for Health that the HSE is committed to ensuring that full elective orthopaedic capacity at Merlin Park University Hospital is restored. In September 2017 leaks in the roof of the building that houses Merlin Park University Hospital's orthopaedic theatres occurred and that necessitated the closure of both theatres.

I have been informed that a full repair of the membrane of the roof was required to secure the integrity of the building. These works are now complete. Notwithstanding the repair, the theatres date from the 1950s and do not meet current clinical standards. An independent clinical assessment has been undertaken to assess the feasibility of returning these theatres to use. The hospital management has advised the best way to restore effective capacity at Merlin Park University Hospital is through the provision of two modular theatres on the site. This has now gone to tender and the tender for these new modular units is at the final stages. It is expected the contract will be awarded in the coming weeks with works to take place thereafter.

Photo of Catherine ConnollyCatherine Connolly (Galway West, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I do not know how to express my disappointment at the Taoiseach's reply. Two theatres have been out of action since September of last year. The Taoiseach has been repeating the same type of response for the past number of months. A clinical review has been carried out. The clinical review has said the current design does not meet current surgical standards which begs the question why it was not done prior to the repairs instead of after. We are looking at modular theatres which were supposed to be a temporary measure but they will not be in place 13 months after the water poured in. How can the Taoiseach stand over the situation in Galway? We were led to believe in October at a meeting convened under pressure by the Minister for Health that it would be sorted out. Beds in the hospital in University Hospital Galway were reopened. Why were beds closed on St. Finbar's orthopaedic ward in a hospital that is bursting at the seams when beds can suddenly be opened to facilitate Merlin Park University Hospital? We are also discovering that another solution is to open an old theatre in Merlin Park.

Every time we get an answer we get a different one. The answer the Taoiseach gave us was given months ago, and the repairs were completed months ago.

2:50 pm

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The answer I gave the Deputy is the one I had to hand. I am not charged with dealing with this issue day to day. Those who are, namely, the management of the hospital and the Minister for Health, may be able to give the Deputy a more up-to-date answer. I am told that some elective orthopaedic surgeries have now been provided in University Hospital Galway and that, between 20 October and 29 January this year, 88 patients had procedures carried out at University Hospital Galway that would otherwise have been carried out at Merlin Park.