Dáil debates

Tuesday, 27 February 2018

6:25 pm

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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I thank the Minister for coming in. The programme for Government states "We need a dynamic and innovative education system that reflects the diversity of Twenty First Century Ireland." It also speaks of a "roadmap" for a phased transfer of Catholic schools to new patrons. The problem, of course, is that the Minister has not delivered and is not delivering on that commitment. In spite of the worthy aspirations to diversity in the programme for Government, there has been an abject failure to follow through on the so-called patronage divestment process.

As the Minister knows, this matter goes back to 2012 and the recommendations of the forum on patronage and pluralism in primary schools. We know that through surveys it was established that there was evidence of parental demand for change in a number of areas of stable population, and that this would happen by the Catholic Church divesting patronage of existing schools. The Department gave approval for Educate Together to proceed with opening a number of new multidenominational schools under this process. Included in these were Trim, Tuam, Tramore, New Ross and Castlebar Educate Together schools. Educate Together is adamant that at no stage in this process did it agree that these would remain as half-stream schools. It indicates that principals and boards were appointed on the basis of these schools being allowed to develop and grow. This is and always has been the basis on which Educate Together agrees to open new schools.

All five schools are thriving and intended to take in full junior infant classes this September. In spite of this, the Department has stepped in to stymie their development by severely limiting their intake to a half-stream of 13 children this September. Parents in each of these areas are very upset and disappointed that their wishes and entitlement to send their children to a school with a patron of their choice has been completely disregarded and shown disrespect. When this matter was highlighted in the media, the Department issued a factually incorrect statement. It stated the level of potential pupil intake indicated a long-term projected size of up to half a single stream school, and this statement is erroneous. In the majority of the five schools, the recommendation was for at least a half-stream school. More important, the surveys of all five schools stated, "Taking account of ... long-term requirements, accommodation options for a full stream of provision should be considered."

The purpose of this process is that the Catholic Church is to reconfigure its own schools to free up existing accommodation for a new Educate Together school in each area. The surveys for all five of these schools stated, "The main patron (Catholic Archbishop) should now be asked to consider reconfiguration options that would provide accommodation for an Educate Together school in the area." Did the Minister ask the main patron to do this and, if so, what was his reply? Will the Minister now withdraw the Department's instruction to these five schools to limit their intake and allow these schools to develop and thrive in accordance with the wishes of local families?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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I thank Deputy Shortall. The matter was raised last week but she did not get a chance to be here on that occasion. I am delighted to be able to respond today.

The background to this is the 2012 report of the advisory group to the forum on patronage and pluralism in the primary sector, which recommended that demand for patronage diversity should be met in areas of stable population by divesting patronage of existing schools where there is evidence of parental demand for change. In this context, in 2012 and 2013, my Department undertook surveys of parental preferences in 43 areas of stable population to establish the level of demand for a wider choice in the patronage of primary schools. These areas were all stable in terms of population growth, so no new school places were required.

The establishment and size of the schools indicated by the Deputy have origins in the report on the pilot surveys regarding parental preferences on primary school patronage and the report on the surveys regarding parental preferences on primary school patronage, which indicated a size of at least half a single-stream school, comprising four classrooms, being required to accommodate parental demand in the case of Tramore, Trim and Castlebar, and up to four classrooms in the case of New Ross and Tuam.

Under the patronage divesting process, a school could be opened where a school building became, or was due to become, available as a result of an amalgamation or closure of an existing school. In some areas, in responding to demand for diversity, where existing patrons were unable to make school properties available, my Department included an examination of properties held in public ownership.

All schools irrespective of their location have to operate within their available accommodation and manage annual pupil intake accordingly. The initial establishment of the indicated schools as four classroom schools, and the need to be cognisant of managing the available accommodation, has been reflected in my Department's engagement with the patron body of these schools, Educate Together. When one of the schools raised the issue of expanding its enrolment my Department invited Educate Together to submit a case to it in this regard. The case has been submitted by Educate Together to further expand five schools under its patronage that opened under the patronage divesting process.

These are Educate Together national schools in Castlebar, New Ross, Tramore, Trim and Tuam. A case for each of these schools is current under consideration. My Department is carrying out nationwide demographic exercises at primary and post-primary levels to identify areas of demographic growth and determine where additional school accommodation is needed in order to plan for school provision nationwide. This work is almost complete.

In this context the outcome of the nationwide demographic exercises will have an input into the consideration of the case submitted by Educate Together. In addition, I have announced a new patronage reconfiguration process which will accelerate the delivery of multidenominational and non-denominational schools to reach 400 such schools by 2030. There have been previous efforts at transferring patronage but we must be honest and admit they have not worked. Only ten schools transferred to multidenominational patronage as a result of the previous process set up by the former Minister, Mr. Ruairí Quinn, in 2012.

The figure is lower than was hoped for. The new process is designed to build on lessons learned from the previous process and deliver more multidenominational and non-denominational schools. That is what we believe it will do. Unlike the previous process, this plan will focus on live transfers so that a school that transfers under the new process will not be reliant on temporary accommodation.

6:35 pm

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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The Minister is admitting divestment has not worked. He needs to take a different approach. For example, there are ten Catholic schools in Tuam, 11 Catholic schools Castlebar, five Catholic schools in Tramore, six Catholic schools and one Church of Ireland school in Trim and eight Catholic schools in New Ross. The Minister is not prepared to support a full stream Educate Together school in any of those towns.

That is a huge breach of faith on the Minister's part. He is operating a policy of protectionism in respect of these schools. In a letter that recently went out to one of these schools, the Minister's Department claimed the intention of the divestment programme is that the establishment of a divested school does not adversely affect existing primary schools in the area. Does the person who wrote the letter not get it? The whole point of divestment is that Catholic schools would reconfigure, free up existing accommodation and make that available to the Educate Together schools.

The Minister has admitted the system has not worked so far. I asked him if he had asked the patrons to reconfigure and to make schools available. If so, what was their reply? Can he answer that question now? He is accepting divestment has failed. Will the Minister come up with an urgent response to the needs of those five schools? The parents are expecting to send their children there this September. The schools are expecting to be fully functioning viable schools that will take in a full junior infants class in September. Will the Minister give a new instruction to those five schools to enable them to continue to grow and thrive and ensure the rights of parents are upheld. For goodness sake, parents have a right to send their children to a tax-funded local school that is of the patronage that respects their wishes and-----

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has two minutes to respond.

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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-----their views. The Minister has a duty to uphold those rights.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is great at throwing around accusations, which she is entitled to do. I have heard it many a time in this Department. I know the Deputy would like me to be able to say that every parent has a right to get the school precisely of his or her choice. Unfortunately, the State has never been able to offer that. We have always had a situation that if one school is particularly popular and is growing and another school is empty, we do not just build on the popular schools. That has never been-----

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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Answer the question that I asked.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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-----the policy of the Department. It was not under my predecessors either. The reason is that we just do not have the capital funds to build precisely the schools that each parent wants. That is the difficulty. The former Minister, Mr. Ruairí Quinn's attempt was a genuine one to, as Deputy Shortall rightly said, get a school to close and amalgamate and to get a building released and for that become a new school. Unfortunately, as the Deputy can see, the church schools, the ten that were opened here, were not always opened in church schools volunteering their buildings. They did not emerge that way. Other public buildings had to be used to supplement what was coming through from the church in those instances. When those buildings were made available, they were made available and the school had a building within which it could expand. They have made an application to my Department to see if we would consider allowing them go beyond the building in which they are operating in or the capacity that they have been assigned under that process and expand. We are examining that process.

As to whether we can do better, I believe we can do better. We are now instituting a process under the education training boards, ETBs, which are local bodies in each community, to identify areas where it is believed there is a demand and to do a survey of preschool children to establish a level of demand. I refer to approaching this in a different way-----

Photo of Róisín ShortallRóisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats)
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The Minister is not answering the question about these five schools.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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-----and not looking for amalgamations and closures but moving-----

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister, Deputy Bruton. He has exceeded his time.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin Bay North, Fine Gael)
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-----to a situation where we would get live transfers - in other words, the school would close under one patron and open simultaneously or further on under a different one.