Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
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55. To ask the Minister for Employment Affairs and Social Protection if it is a legal requirement to accept a public services card if a card is needed to legally access some services; if the single customer view can be legally used for data sharing; if so, the legislation in this regard; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [8338/18]

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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The public services card is simply the token that proves that a person, Joan Collins for example, has completed the SAFE 2 level process and that she is Joan Colllins. The card is only a by-product or a token of having gone through that standard. There are 50 public bodies - or their agents - detailed and listed in the Social Welfare Consolidation Act 2005, as amended, that can ask a person for the public services card. This is mostly so they can do business with the public over the phone or online. If Deputy Joan Collins has public services card No. 123456 and if she quotes her number to SUSI, for example, during a telephone conversation, SUSI will know who she is because it has access to the dataset which shows that Joan Collins has undergone the SAFE 2 process and that there is no need to ask her for any further identification, such as a driving licence, a public services card, a passport or an ESB bill. None of that will be required because we will already know that Joan Collins is who she says she is and then the SUSI application can be processed. When we are assured of a person's identity by means of SAFE 2, it allows access to a whole range of services offered by the 50 public bodies and their agents. This makes dealing with Government easier than it used to be.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
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With respect to the Minister, she is saying that the public services card, PSC, is going to become the predominant identification for accessing public services and beyond. I was talking to a young lad recently who wanted to apply for a driver's licence. He was told that he had to have a PSC. That means that there is a requirement for a PSC in that contradictory sense which the Minister has used, that is, that it is compulsory but not mandatory.

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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It is a requirement.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, Independent)
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It confuses the issue. There is huge concern that this is a sneaky way around introducing a national identification card. A similar process happened in Britain. They had a card called the entitlements card, which sounds very much like the PSC which was introduced here in 2005. The point was raised that additions have been made to that 2005 legislation 35 times, so many people do not know where they stand under it. If we are going to bring in a national identity card we should have that debate. If I go to get a driver's licence in two years' time and am told that I have to have a PSC to prove my identity, then the card is mandatory.

Regina Doherty (Meath East, Fine Gael)
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I have defended the PSC, I have said that it is not an identity card and I have listed all the reasons as to why it is not, including that nobody can ask a person for it. One can never be walking down the road and be stopped by someone demanding that one show one's PSC. Nobody has the authority to ask a person for their PSC. The only thing that bodies have the authority to do is to allow one to offer it in order to be able to access public services, particularly online public services. I minced some words - compulsory, mandatory, requirement. A person cannot access valuable public services unless we know that person is who he or she claims to be. That service could be the provision of a passport or a driving licence. These are very valuable documents. In order for us to issue a licence or passport to Joan Collins, Joan Collins has to have gone through the SAFE2 process so that the State knows that she is Joan Collins.

For the record, although it would not be my remit anyway but that of another Department, neither I nor the Government have any interest in having a debate about introducing a national identification card. I do not think we should have a national identification card in this country for all the same reasons the Deputy thinks we should not. This card is a by-product of a system that was introduced in 2005 and which was underpinned by legislation in 2011 whereby, when Joan Collins is invited in to prove she is who she claims to be, she reaches a level or standard that is so robust that we can ensure that there are no other Joan Collins's in the world or in Ireland claiming to be her and that she is not claiming to be anybody else. We are just trying to ensure that the taxpayer's money is being given and directed, through the services, to people who are who they say they are.