Dáil debates

Tuesday, 20 February 2018

4:15 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his address to Seanad Éireann and the new Seanad reform group. [6006/18]

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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4. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his recent address to Seanad Éireann; and his plans for Seanad Reform. [6901/18]

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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5. To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his address to Seanad Éireann and the proposals for Seanad reform. [7270/18]

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 3, 4 and 5 together.

As I outlined in my recent speech to Seanad Éireann, I have decided that an implementation group on Seanad reform should be established with an eight month mandate to consider the Manning report and develop specific proposals to legislate for Seanad reform.

I propose that the implementation group comprise Members of the Oireachtas with the assistance of outside experts, as appropriate, including the franchise section of the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government.

I believe it is important that all groups in the Oireachtas are represented on the implementation group and also that it is representative, although this will make it quite large.

I will be writing shortly to party and group leaders inviting them to nominate members to the group.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach will accept that there is universal frustration in the House at how often promises of genuine consultations are not followed up on and it has taken some time to get this off the ground. I have consulted with the Taoiseach on this issue and I believe it is important that we get onto the implementation of the Manning report and ensure we have an outcome. I know the Taoiseach himself has not been a convert to the recommendations of the Manning report, but it is in the programme for Government, which makes it clear that it is to be implemented.

Can the Taoiseach outline why, in his speech to the Seanad, he did not outline the name of the potential chair of this group? I am of a view that it has to be someone substantive, with authority and with the commitment to implement the Manning report and who will get the job done. My understanding is that the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, has objections to a certain individual who was put forward for the role. I regret to have heard that. We should proceed with someone who is independent, is genuinely committed to Seanad reform and can see this through.

I noted the absence of a nominee for chair of the group in his Seanad speech and I would appreciate if he could clarify the reasons for that this afternoon.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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There is a level of public and political cynicism around the whole area of Seanad reform. It must be one of the most talked-about political phenomena of our time, alongside the roll-out of broadband. It is endlessly rehearsed, yet it never happens. I note the Taoiseach's stated intention to the Seanad to establish this committee and for it to have an eight month mandate. The Taoiseach might consider narrowing that down to six months, simply in recognition of the tardiness in establishing this mechanism to consider the Manning report. Having said that, I believe that the committee is probably the way to proceed and we support that.

I would appreciate if the Taoiseach could confirm for us whether he was due to announce that Senator McDowell would act as chairperson of the committee and whether that in fact was vetoed by Minister Ross. If that was the turn of events, who does the Taoiseach propose will chair this committee?

The Taoiseach also said that we should elect Senators from the North, from both nationalist and unionist communities, so that the Seanad has an all-island dimension. I very much support that statement. I believe the Seanad can be a really powerful vehicle for Northern participation in the Oireachtas. Let me emphasise that I mean a balanced participation from both nationalism and unionism. The Taoiseach did not elaborate much on this issue. I wonder if he might now discuss it further.

The Manning report recommends extending the franchise to all citizens resident in the North as well as the diaspora. The report further states that there is no constitutional impediment to doing so and that the Oireachtas can confer the right to register to vote in Seanad elections on Irish citizens living in the North and to Irish passport holders living overseas. The Taoiseach has said that he does not support all of the Manning report recommendations. Does he support the recommendation to extend the franchise to citizens in the North and to the diaspora and will he commit to legislating for this in the time ahead?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There is an element of Groundhog Day when we talk about reforming the Seanad. It is the equivalent of restoring the Irish language and draining the Shannon: an object that will always be with us. I know the Taoiseach had a jaundiced view about the Manning report. He previous told us to write to each of the party leaders to seek a nomination to serve on an implementation body. Is this panel to be established going to implement the Manning report faithfully or is it to investigate whether it is fit for purpose now? Will the Taoiseach be making his own submissions and having his own input into that? Will he have his own nominee on the panel?

On the issue of votes for all Irish citizens, either in the Irish diaspora or in Northern Ireland, would the Taoiseach consider a separate panel to look at that? I remember looking at this issue many years ago when I was Minister for the Environment, because at that stage there was talk of having a universal vote across the world for a panel of members elected to the Seanad. The issues are formidable, in terms of getting registration, so it might be more effective if there was a working group looking at that issue separately from the balance of the proposals in the Manning report. I am interested in hearing the Taoiseach's views.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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On the issue of the chairmanship, the chair has not been nominated as yet. The matter is still under consideration. I am not entirely sure if it necessarily falls to me to appoint a chair.

It is possible that the committee could elect its own chair, but-----

4:25 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There was a view that Senator McDowell would be the chair.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I know he is the favourite candidate of the Fianna Fáil Party. I do not know what the view is of Labour or Sinn Féin-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We were not asked.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thought the Taoiseach had agreed it.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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-----but I do agree that whoever it is should be independent of Government, genuinely committed to Seanad reform and capable of bringing it through, so I agree with Deputy Martin's sentiments.

It is true that I have reservations about the Manning report - I have not made a secret of that - regarding the cost and also the practicability of implementing it. If implemented, it would require everyone to re-register to vote not for the Dáil, but for the Seanad. It would also require people to register to vote on a particular panel, and they will have a choice of one of five panels plus universities. I believe that could cause a degree of confusion. As the Constitution requires it, the election, when held, will have to be a postal vote. It is a requirement in the Constitution that elections to the Seanad can only be held by postal vote. That is the reason we go through this very strange ritual where we fill in the ballot papers in here and then go to the post office to post them back to here. That would have to be done not just on that scale but potentially on an international scale, so the election potentially could cost €50 million, €60 million, €70 million or €80 million. Who knows? Frankly, I have reservations about some of these matters, but it is in the programme for Government. I am bound by the programme for Government and therefore we will press ahead with it in full.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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In the sure knowledge that it will never happen.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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It is not another committee to examine the recommendations again.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Where is the strategic communications unit now?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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It is a working group to implement the many recommendations, not to reconsider them. I want to be very clear about that.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We cannot understand the communication. I think we need the strategic communications unit to explain to us what the Taoiseach is saying-----

Photo of Seán Ó FearghaílSeán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, can we let the Taoiseach respond?

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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-----because we do not understand it.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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He is saying it is hogwash, but he has to do a bit of it.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I am saying exactly what I am saying. I am fairly clear and blunt in the contributions I make in this House. I have reservations about it. I have doubts. I told the Deputy what they are, but I know it is a commitment in the programme for Government. Therefore, I am bound by it, and we are gong to go ahead with it.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Who put it in the programme for Government?

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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That is what is going to happen.

Photo of Joan BurtonJoan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It is a hogwash-----

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is a contradictory message.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The group is being set up not to look at it again, but to implement it, and that is what will happen. If other people do not have reservations, that is fine, but I want to put mine on the record now. I assume that if others do not have reservations, they are happy that no problems will arise in implementation.

In terms of broadband, when we talk about broadband it is important to acknowledge that when this Government comprising Fine Gael, the Independent Alliance and Independents came into office in May 2011, only about 50% of the homes, businesses and farms in this country had access to high speed broadband.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Taoiseach did not come into power in 2011.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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My apologies, 2016.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I know he would like to airbrush that-----

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I almost forgot about those five long years. My apologies.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is okay.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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When the Fine Gael, Independent Alliance and Independents Government came into office in May 2016, just over 50% of homes, businesses and farms had high-speed broadband. We are now up to approximately 75% and we will be at 80% by the end of the year. Notwithstanding the delays in the national broadband plan-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It has nothing to do with Government; it is commercial entities.

Photo of Leo VaradkarLeo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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-----going from 50% to 80% is not bad progress and is much more progress than is being made with Seanad reform, draining the Shannon and those other matters.

As Deputy McDonald pointed out, the Seanad can be used to allow those of us in the Oireachtas to hear more diverse voices, including those of the diaspora, and I am delighted that my forebear appointed Senator Lawless to represent the diaspora, and also more voices from Northern Ireland. The Free State Senate reserved seats, at least in its first term, for people from a southern unionist background like W.B. Yeats. I believe it would enhance the Oireachtas and the Seanad if we had more people from North of the Border in the Seanad. It would be important also that they would be from both communities.