Dáil debates

Thursday, 15 February 2018

11:40 am

Photo of James LawlessJames Lawless (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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8. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport when weekend and off-peak rail services on the Kildare line will commence through the Phoenix Park tunnel; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7730/18]

Photo of Bríd SmithBríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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13. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport if he has engaged with workers' representatives in Irish Rail or Bus Éireann on the ongoing issues at those companies following recent disputes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7718/18]

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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23. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport his views on the industrial relations disputes in Irish Rail; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7727/18]

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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87. To ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport his views on the current dispute in Irish Rail regarding driver training; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7546/18]

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Ceann Comhairle has given Deputy Robert Troy permission to take Question No. 8 in the name of Deputy James Lawless on the basis that he is unavoidably absent. Also, I think Deputy Mick Barry will be able to take Question No. 13 in the name of Deputy Bríd Smith, if he so wishes. I ask Deputy Robert Troy to make the 30-second introduction. The other Members will be able to make their contributions after the Minister's reply.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Minister have plans to introduce weekend and off-peak services on the Kildare line through the Phoenix Park tunnel? It is fair to say the tunnel, about which we spoke earlier, has been a positive development, although its operation is very restricted. Does the Minister intend to extend its operating times?

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 13, 23 and 87 together.

The commencement of off-peak commuter services on the Kildare line through the Phoenix Park tunnel is the subject of industrial relations discussions in Irish Rail. The services are expected to commence later this year and I am determined that they will. Industrial relations are a matter for the company and its employees. Disputes about pay or conditions can only be solved by engagement. As Deputies are aware, the State can assist through the normal industrial relations machinery. The Labour Court and the Workplace Relations Commission are the appropriate forums for discussion. I have made it clear time and again that I will not intervene in areas in which it is not appropriate for a Minister to do so.

Following two days of strike action by Iarnród Éireann staff in early November 2017, the Labour Court intervened and a recommendation of a 7.5% increase over three years was accepted on 8 December. A separate Labour Court recommendation which issued in August 2017 related only to train drivers and union claims involving past productivity gains which unions allege were never remunerated. The court recommended an award of 1.15% in full and final settlement of the issue, in return for which drivers would co-operate in the mentoring and supervision of trainee drivers in their final phase of training. Unions rejected the proposed 1.15% additional award on 10 January. The NBRU and SIPTU have commenced a ballot of their members and a result is expected on 28 February. The company and the trade unions have agreed to a referral to the Labour Court for adjudication on the training and mentoring of trainee drivers. The lack of agreement has delayed the completion of the training of new drivers and forced the company to suspend the expansion of services, including services on the Kildare line, as mentioned by Deputy Robert Troy earlier.

Regarding Bus Éireann, I have been advised that progress has been made on many parts of the 2017 Labour Court recommendation, including changes to rosters to ensure maximum rostering efficiency.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has a little amnesia. In one of his earlier replies he made disparaging remarks about previous Governments. He has forgotten that he complimented Michael Fingleton on providing "a cracking set of figures" which had left "superstar" Seán FitzPatrick standing in awe.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy, please, deal with the issue?

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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In another article he wrote when he was a journalist, the Minister commended Seán FitzPatrick and said he should be Governor of the Central Bank. He continues to show his cheerleading abilities for the banks.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy, please, deal with the issue?

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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Now that he is in government, the Minister has done nothing to help the people who are suffering with tracker mortgages.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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We have learned today that the Government is planning to allow the loans of 20,000 people through Permanent TSB to be sold to vulture funds.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I will suspend the sitting.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has come into the House today to lecture us about previous Governments.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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He has been in a position to act as a member of the Government, but he has done nothing. The 20,000 families may be evicted.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I must say I am very surprised that the Deputy is acting in this way.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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They are being thrown to the vulture funds, while the Minister is doing nothing.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Deputy, please, resume his seat?

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I am going to ask the question.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Sit down.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I am going to ask the question.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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No. The Deputy should sit down when I tell him.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I will do so out of respect for the Acting Chairman.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I am most surprised that the Deputy has not adhered to what the Chair has told him. The Minister has answered the specific question asked on which the Deputy is being allowed to deputise for Deputy James Lawless. I ask him to address the issue. He has wasted quite a lot of his time, but I will allow him to ask a supplementary question as long as he sticks to the matter before the House.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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It is a pity you were not so forceful when the Minister was throwing disparaging remarks across to this side of the House.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputy.

Photo of Brendan GriffinBrendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is replacing Deputy James Lawless, but he is not supposed to be lawless.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I accept that the opening of the Phoenix Park tunnel is subject to industrial relations considerations, but the Minister has failed to convene the stakeholders forum. Does he accept that if he had convened it six months ago, when he promised to do so, these issues could have been addressed, negotiated and worked through? Will he confirm that enough carriages are available to increase the number of services passing through the Phoenix Park tunnel? I know from my meetings with the former CEO of Irish Rail that no additional carriages will come on stream at Irish Rail for a minimum of 18 months. The carriages in question will be taken from rolling stock that has been put out of service. Old carriages are being reconfigured and refurbished. No new carriages have been ordered. Even if they were ordered today, it would take a minimum of four years to deliver them.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Minister to, please, stick to the issue in his response.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I will.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Before the Minister responds, Deputy Mick Barry must have a chance to come in.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I am sorry; I will let him in first.

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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No; my question is on pensions. It is to be taken after this question.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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No; it has been grouped.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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They have been grouped together.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Mick Barry can speak on the issue of pensions now

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I can speak on it now.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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My question relates to the CIÉ pension fund, an issue of great concern to 10,000 CIÉ workers. The pension fund is underfunded to the tune of €80 million. The board of CIÉ has not been funding the pension fund properly since 2009, despite the fact that it is legally obliged to do so. One hour ago in this House the Minister challenged Deputy Imelda Munster to refer him to where the board of CIÉ was in defiance of the law.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I apologise for interrupting the Deputy, but the Minister is addressing the subject matter of Question No. 23 in the Deputy's name, not the issue the Deputy is raising.

Photo of Brendan GriffinBrendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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This question relates to the Phoenix Park tunnel.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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We are taking Questions Nos. 8, 13, 23 and 87 together. Question No. 23, in the name of Deputy Mick Barry, asks the Minister to set out his views on the industrial relations disputes in Irish Rail.

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I tried to make it clear to the Chair that I wanted to follow up on my question on the pensions issue.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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No; it has been grouped.

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I am aware of that.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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These are the rules of the House.

The Deputy has tabled a question on this matter. Does he wish to make a contribution?

11:50 am

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I do not.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I call on the Minister to reply to Deputy Troy in regard to the question from Deputy Lawless.

Photo of Mick BarryMick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I am furious about this.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I will not address it except to say that Deputy Troy should be accurate in so far as I never suggested that Seán FitzPatrick should be Governor of the Central Bank. Perhaps he will withdraw his remark in that regard.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister can take that up with Deputy Troy. I ask him to address the question.

Photo of Brendan GriffinBrendan Griffin (Kerry, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Troy's remark is on the record of the House.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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It is on the record of the House.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Minister to answer the question.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I will do so but, on a point of order, there is something that Deputy Troy should withdraw from the record of the House.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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And that is?

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I never suggested that Seán FitzPatrick should be Governor of the Central Bank and I ask Deputy Troy to withdraw that allegation.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Does Deputy Troy wish to correct the record?

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I will double check my sources and revert on the matter.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Does Deputy Troy wish to correct the record?

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Ross lauded Seán FitzPatrick.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I never suggested-----

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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In an article written by Deputy Ross he referred to Seán FitzPatrick as a "superstar".

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Troy stated that he will check his-----

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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In the interests of being fair to the Acting Chairman------

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Troy should not ask me again.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to be of assistance------

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Troy stated that he will check his records.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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His records are incorrect but he can check them.

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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I call on the Minister to answer the question that was tabled.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I will be delighted to do so.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Eugene MurphyEugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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Two Deputies who are present will not be able to ask their questions because of what is going on, which is unfair. I ask the Minister to continue.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I will reply to part of what Deputy Troy said but will not reply to a contemptible allegation.

I am absolutely committed to holding the public transport stakeholder dialogue which Deputy Troy stated I failed to hold. My interest is that industrial relations should be extremely good. The Deputy is aware that during an industrial relations dispute when the unions, quite understandably, asked that I become involved and intervene, which I cannot do, I pledged to hold a public transport stakeholder dialogue on the condition that it should not take place during an industrial relations dispute because that would probably be the only subject of conversation, which is not the purpose of the dialogue. We made several attempts to establish that dialogue but, unfortunately, industrial relations disputes were ongoing. A few weeks ago, we were ready to send out invitations for the dialogue but an industrial relations dispute broke out. As soon as there is industrial peace within the relevant companies, I will send out those invitations because I am determined to progress the dialogue. The industrial relations problems in the transport companies would not necessarily be resolved but would be ameliorated by getting all parties together to discuss the future of transport. My Department is embarking on the preparation of a public transport policy statement. As part of that review, I am committed to convene and host the round-table policy discussion to which Deputy Troy referred. The objective of that event is to facilitate an open and inclusive exchange of views from interested parties on the potential challenges and competing priorities likely to arise across all aspects of public transport provision, including economic, social and environmental considerations.

Photo of Robert TroyRobert Troy (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister stated that he made several attempts to establish the dialogue but the reality is that he attempted to do so only once, which was after the conclusion of industrial action at Bus Éireann. Had the Minister acted in a swift manner at that time and convened the multi-stakeholder forum, it would have been in operation and would have prevented industrial action. However, like most projects to which he turns his hand, he put it on the long finger.

As regards the Phoenix Park tunnel, is the Minister confident there is sufficient rolling stock to roll out that service throughout the day when the industrial action concludes? As I stated, when I met the CEO of Irish Rail before Christmas he identified that there was insufficient rolling stock to introduce new services on certain lines. Does that include the Phoenix Park tunnel?

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin Rathdown, Independent)
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I told the Deputy that it is my intention for that to happen as soon as possible. It is an operational matter for the NTA but it is a high priority.