Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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First, I record congratulations to PDFORRA and EUROMIL on winning their case against the State in the European Committee of Social Rights. The committee ruled by 11 votes to two that Defence Forces personnel were having their right to organise breached and that the Government should recognise their right to affiliate to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. The committee also ruled unanimously - by 13 votes to zero - that the right of Defence Forces personnel to bargain collectively was being breached and that they should be able to participate in pay negotiations, so congratulations and hats off to PDFORRA and EUROMIL. I also want to record here the historic role of the wives and partners of members of the Defence Forces whose protest movement in the 1980s paved the way for the creation of PDFORRA and whose recent work has helped raise general awareness of the dire working conditions endured by Defence Forces personnel and the consequences for their families in terms of living standards. I have no doubt that this has been a source of pressure on this Government.

Is the Minister of State prepared to give a commitment in the House tonight that he will now arrange to meet Ms Patricia King of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions to discuss putting in place the necessary arrangements in the wake of this important judgement? I also ask him to give a commitment not to go down the road of obstruction, denial of rights and foot dragging, which this Government has attempted to do in recent years. From the moment the Garda organisations won their equivalent case at the European Committee of Social Rights in the autumn of 2016, we put the argument to the Minister of State's office that the Government should short-circuit the EUROMIL case rather than force a rehash of the same arguments in Brussels. The fact the Government persevered and contested this case all the way to the bitter end is shameful. Even since the ruling in favour of the Garda organisations, there has been more foot dragging with a promise of a Bill to give effect to the Garda ruling only listed for this Dáil session a full year and a half after the ruling. A Bill of mine entitled the Industrial Relations (Defence Forces) Amendment Bill 2017, which grants trade union rights to the Defence Forces in anticipation of yesterday's ruling, passed First Stage last year. The Government could easily progress this Bill to Committee Stage in this term. The Minister of State might comment.

The denial of union rights to the ranks of the Defence Forces has facilitated many abuses in terms of pay and working conditions.

6 o’clock

The number of Defence Forces personnel on family income supplement alone is testament to this as is the exodus of technically skilled personnel in recent weeks and months. There are issues still outstanding in respect of the Organisation of Working Time Act and the loss of annual leave, Lariam, hazardous working conditions in the Air Corps paint shop in Baldonnel and so on. These issues have been argued out ad nauseambehind the closed doors of the conciliation and arbitration scheme run by the Department of Defence. This is a sham process.

The Taoiseach holds the portfolio of Minister for Defence. Some class of statement from him today regardless of this Topical Issue debate was warranted. I call on him now to make a statement on this ruling and to commit to bring forward legislation immediately to give effect to it in this session. I look forward to the Minister of State's reply with interest.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The European Committee of Social Rights has considered a complaint submitted by EUROMIL, a European umbrella body for military associations, on behalf of PDFORRA, concerning the lack of certain rights for military representative associations in Ireland.

In a non-binding ruling, the committee has concluded that prohibiting military personnel from the right to strike was not in breach of the European Social Charter, but that the charter was breached by prohibiting the representative associations from affiliating with a national employee organisation, such as ICTU, and in respect of the right to bargain collectively.

The Government welcomes the conclusion of the European Committee of Social Rights that the prohibition on the right to strike for members of the Defence Forces is not a violation of the European Social Charter.

It should be noted that the complaint predates a number of significant Government initiatives. Regarding collective bargaining, the Government established an independent Public Service Pay Commission in 2016 to provide objective analysis and advice on the most appropriate pay levels for the public service, including the Defence Forces. The Permanent Defence Force representative associations took the opportunity afforded to them to make submissions to the commission. Following the publication of the report of the public service pay commission, the Government initiated negotiations on an extension to the Lansdowne Road agreement.

The Permanent Defence Force representative associations were subsequently invited to the negotiations on the agreement, which were held under the auspices of the Workplace Relations Commission. They were afforded equal standing with other public sector trade unions and representative associations during the negotiations.

I am happy to acknowledge once again that in mid-December, both PDFORRA and RACO accepted the terms of the Public Service Stability Agreement 2018-2020. This provides for increases in pay ranging from 6.2% to 7.4% over the lifetime of the agreement, with the focus on the lower paid.

Members of the Defence Forces have a range of parallel complaint and adjudication mechanisms in law to compensate for the limitations on their access to the normal industrial relations machinery which applies in wider society. This includes a redress of wrongs, a Defence Forces Ombudsman and a conciliation and arbitration scheme for members of the Permanent Defence Force.

The conciliation and arbitration scheme, since its inception in the early 1990s, has provided the framework to progress many successful negotiated agreements between Defence Forces management and the PDF representative associations. However, there have been many changes in the industrial relations landscape in the intervening period. In this regard I have initiated a fundamental review of the scheme to ensure that it remains efficient and effective for all parties. I have appointed Mr. Gerard Barry to conduct the review. While the focus of the review will be primarily on the operation of the Permanent Defence Force conciliation and arbitration scheme, on my instruction the terms of reference of the review require that the findings of the European Committee of Social Rights are considered as part of that process.

It is critical that the Defence Forces are fully operational at all times. The taking of any form of industrial action is irreconcilable with military service. The right to affiliate with ICTU poses complex questions for the Defence Forces from a legal, operational and management perspective.

In accordance with the Defence Acts 1954 to 2015, military personnel are subject to military law at all times. By association with a trade union or similar body, such as the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, members of the Defence Forces would have to comply with certain obligations and rules of that body. This could have implications having regard to the roles assigned to the Defence Forces.

The Defence Forces have in the past and may again in the future, be called on by the Government to contribute to maintaining vital services. Serious difficulties and conflict of interest for Defence Forces personnel would arise if the Government were to direct the Defence Forces to undertake a task to ensure the maintenance of essential services in an area where the trade union umbrella organisation has authorised any form of industrial action.

It would be unfortunate for any question to arise over the authority of the Government to require military personnel to serve in such circumstances and to observe the commands given by their military superiors.

The findings of the Report of the European Committee of Social Rights are receiving consideration. There are a number of stakeholders involved who will also have input to the review of the PDF conciliation and arbitration scheme. It would not be appropriate at this stage to pre-empt any conclusions arising from the review.

Mick Barry (Cork North Central, Solidarity)
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I asked if the Minister of State would give a commitment to make arrangements to meet Ms Patricia King of the ICTU to put in place arrangements in the wake of this judgment. The reply the Minister of State gave me is that the recommendation from the European committee is receiving consideration. I note that reply. I express disappointment at it. I also take the opportunity to ask the Minister of State how long this consideration will take. Is it consideration that will play out over days, weeks, months or years? It will not be acceptable to the men and women of the Defence Forces and will not be acceptable to those who sit in these benches here and, I hope, others in this House, if the Minister of State attempts to kick to touch and do with the soldiers what the Government has done with gardaí, which is to drag its feet for a long period of time.

The one area where the European committee ruled unfavourably was in the area of the right to strike. Basically its ruling leaves it to member states to uphold a ban and the point was made by the EUROMIL representative that the right to strike exists in the Austrian and Swedish armed forces. The Minister of State said it was irreconcilable, but it exists in Austria and Sweden.

I want to put on record my support for the right to strike for members of the Defence Forces notwithstanding the fact that this right is not being actively sought by PDFORRA. The arguments against the right to strike are quite ridiculous. No worker or group of workers embarks on a strike in a light-minded way. Besides the financial hardship that comes with industrial action, public service workers weigh up the impact of their action on the service they provide to the public. The best that the Government and others in the establishment can come up with is the laughable notion that the Defence Forces might take action in the midst of an invasion or attack. Whether it is our Bill or the Bill that the Government must produce eventually, we will introduce Committee Stage amendments upholding the right to strike.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Barry would love everyone to strike; all he wants is anarchy in here and outside here. He would have a smile on his face every day if that was to happen.

As I said, the conclusions arising from the report of the European Committee of Social Rights raise complex questions for the Defence Forces from a legal, operational and management perspective. While the findings of the report are non-binding, the Government is fully aware of the context to take action to address some of the concerns of the Permanent Defence Force representative associations.

As I advised in my earlier reply, the Permanent Defence Force representative associations were afforded equal standing with other public service trade unions and representative associations at the 2017 public service stability negotiations. I have also stated that I have commissioned a full review of the conciliation and arbitration scheme. I am on the record of this House as saying that I want a full report back within six months. I expect this to be back by no later than the end of June or early July.

I note in his first contribution that Deputy Barry talked about the high number of Defence Forces members who receive family income supplement. Maybe the Deputy does not want to hear the truth and maybe he just does not listen, but there are 175 persons in receipt of family income supplement as of today. If the Deputy wants to check that out, that is a reply I received directly from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection. I know that I repeat that figure every time the Deputy raises that issue in this House but maybe he just does not want to remember it. I will repeat it for him again in case he did not hear it. Some 175 members of the Irish Defence Forces are in receipt of family income supplement.