Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

We in Sinn Féin support a North-South interconnector and an all-Ireland energy market. Most importantly, however, we only support it if it is undergrounded. Shockingly, the Government plans to overground it. Fine Gael and the Independents seek to construct 409 pylons, some of them up to 51 m high, carrying 400,000 V through Meath, Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone. Some will be constructed at a minimum distance of 13 m from people's houses. There are significant fears regarding threats to health as well as the value of homes, farms, and businesses. Tourism, agriculture and the bloodstock industry will all be affected.

The truth is that the technology the Government is seeking to build is becoming increasingly out of date. It is being superseded by new underground technology that is being rolled out elsewhere in the world. EirGrid itself has conceded that it can be done. We also know that the price of undergrounding is falling all the time. The fact is that EirGrid has pig-headedly forced through a particular version of the interconnector. This has actually slowed down the delivery of the infrastructure. It is ten years on the go and still without a shovel going into the ground.

There is another crisis arising. EirGrid has stated that it has access to the land to build the pylons but, lo and behold, An Bord Pleanála has not approved access for EirGrid to the lands to build the pylons. It is not included in the planning permission that has been received by EirGrid. An Bord Pleanála has not approved any one of the 584 access routes required on the lands. That is very significant. There are 400 landowners along the route of the interconnector, 97% of whom have said that EirGrid will not be allowed on the land.

If EirGrid accessed the land without agreement of the farmer, it is my understanding that it would be breaching An Bord Pleanála's permission. Is this something new? Is the Minister aware of EirGrid breaching An Bord Pleanála's permissions before, in County Laois, for example? What is to happen when EirGrid breaches these permissions? Is the Minister going to stand idly by and allow that to happen?

Legally, it is EirGrid's duty to get an agreement on an access route, which should be achieved between the farmer and the council. Is this going to happen? How is EirGrid going to gain access to the land if it does not have planning permission for access? That is a serious conundrum that could leave the Minister, Deputy Naughten, with another massive problem within the space of a couple of weeks.

Has the Government factored in the cost of dealing with this problem and has it factored in the cost of dealing with the lack of co-operation from farmers? We hear from the Minister, Deputy Regina "Che Guevara" Doherty, that there is going to be potential for civil disobedience along the route and that she herself is going to take to the barricades and defend the farmers. If she showed the same level of energy and enthusiasm defending farmers at the Cabinet table or in the Dáil Chamber, we would all welcome it. What is the Minister going to do if we get to this point?

The farmers along the routes are decent, law-abiding people. It is not in their wildest dreams to seek to come into conflict with the Government. However, there is a danger that the Minister is sleepwalking into a Shell to Sea situation, except far worse; Shell to Sea was in a couple of townlands in one corner of one county. This is going to happen along the whole route, in Meath, Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone. How is EirGrid going to gain access to the land when it does not have permission to do so? Has the Government costed the opposition to this?

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

I thank Deputy Tóibín for providing me the opportunity to discuss the proposed North-South interconnector. It is important to state at the outset that it is not part of the Government’s remit to direct EirGrid in the development of energy infrastructure to particular sites, routes or technologies. This policy was clearly expressed in the 2012 Government policy statement on the strategic importance of transmission and other energy infrastructure.

It is not "my" Government but our Government; it is a Government made up of representatives of this House.

The decisions that have been taken on this project were taken by previous governments, not this Government. Of course, there was no Government in Northern Ireland to make a decision one way or the other.

On 21 December 2016 An Bord Pleanála granted planning permission for the North-South interconnector project in Ireland. The decision concluded a lengthy planning process which included an oral hearing completed over 11 weeks from March to May 2016.

The planning process carried out by An Bord Pleanála heard from my Department that the North-South interconnector is a key project in delivering the objectives of national energy policy, specifically, security of supply, competitiveness and sustainability. The interconnector will bring benefits directly to electricity consumers across the island of Ireland through lower prices as a result of more efficient operation of the all-island single electricity market. It will also ensure a safe and sustainable source of energy for both jurisdictions.

All aspects of the project were evaluated, including the potential for undergrounding, and it was determined by the inspector that an overground option was the most appropriate solution. This is dealt with in considerable detail in the inspector’s report. On 23 January 2018, full planning permission was granted for the section of the line that lies in Northern Ireland. The Department of Infrastructure in Northern Ireland stated that the decision was based on the urgent and compelling need for the proposed development and was taken because the Department considered that it is in the public interest to take this decision without further delay given the strategic importance of the project for the region.

So, the statutorily-independent planning processes on both sides of the Border have determined that the proposed North-South interconnector should be developed as an overhead line, not as an underground line. I fully accept the outcome of both planning processes.

The proposed interconnector had already been the subject of a variety of studies, all concluding that an overhead line is the best solution, both from a technical and cost perspective. However, based on concerns expressed to me at meetings with various parliamentary colleagues and local community representatives and to address the main points of the motions passed in the Oireachtas in February and March 2017, I have commissioned two further independent studies into the project. The first study is specifically examining the technical feasibility and cost of undergrounding the interconnector. The second study, at the Deputy's request, is examining the levels of compensation provided to property owners in proximity to high-voltage transmission lines across Europe. Both reports will be published this quarter, and people will have the opportunity to consider them in detail at that stage.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The Minister has studiously avoided answering my question. An Bord Pleanála has granted planning permission to Eirgrid. It does not include access in over 500 situations. Without access Eirgrid cannot build the interconnector. Unless it breaches that permission this will meet another stone wall. Is the Minister going to tell us how exactly Eirgrid is going to gain access to build the North-South interconnector?

Why should it not be the policy of the Government to direct that Eirgrid builds the interconnector underground? If it is the policy of political parties, why is it not translated into Government policy when that party has its hands on the steering wheel?

It is disingenuous to say that I asked for an investigation into the levels of compensation for families living along the curtilage of the North-South interconnector. I asked if the Minister would find out what the project would cost in terms of the fall in value of the properties concerned. These are two separate issues; they are unrelated. The Minister knows that is what I asked for in the meeting we had in his office. It seems that something has got lost in translation between us or in the Department. The Department did not pick up either the request mandated by this Dáil with regards the investigation last March. It purposely decided to carry out an investigation that was not asked for. The question I asked was what the costs on the value drops were likely to be along the curtilage of the interconnectors. The answer I will get will show the likely compensation levels for farmers.

Answers to the following questions might shed some light on this process. How is Eirgrid going to build the interconnector without the permissions from An Bord Pleanála and how is it that we are not going find out the drops in value of property in this investigation?

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The report will outline how compensation is calculated and the comparable figures across Europe. The figures are relative to issues such as depreciation, loss of use, loss of value and so forth

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

They are not equal to it.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context | Oireachtas source

The current planning permission for the delivery of the North-South interconnector in both Ireland and Northern Ireland is for an overhead line. An underground line would require a whole new planning process. It is important that I put that on the record because the impression given at a recent meeting with Monaghan County Council was that a new planning process would not be required.

All of the existing information pertaining to the undergrounding was available to An Bord Pleanála as part of that planning process. In the oral hearing the inspector heard testimony both in favour of and against the overground and underground solutions. The inspector examined those issues thoroughly and concluded that the overhead line was the best technical and economic solution for the North-South interconnector to meet its objectives.

As Minister I have an overarching duty, unless lawfully challenging a decision, to respect the decisions of lawfully established bodies. Having said that, I fully respect that this is an emotive issue for many people, particularly those in close proximity to the proposed project. For that reason I met with the people on the ground. I was the first Minister in a long time to do that. I met with Members of the Oireachtas here on a number of occasions. I met with Monaghan County Council last week, and some very disingenuous comments came out of that meeting which were untrue. It is disappointing, when I as Minister am prepared to meet with public representatives, that comments like that would come out of such meetings. Having said that, the reports will be completed this quarter. They will be published and will be made available to interested parties so people can see for themselves in black and white the information contained in them and the conclusions, whatever they are, and make up their minds after that.