Dáil debates

Thursday, 1 February 2018

12:00 pm

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste will be aware of Eir's decision yesterday to withdraw from the Government-sponsored national broadband plan. This followed the decision by SIRO, a joint venture between the ESB and Vodafone, to withdraw late last year. Three of the most experienced and established utility companies in the State have opted out of the Government process to provide broadband infrastructure to 542,000 homes and business premises dotted throughout rural Ireland.

In 2011, the Fine Gael-led Government promised that broadband would be rolled out to every premises in the State by 2016. That did not happen. Yesterday's announcement signalled the collapse of the Government's plan. When negotiating a programme for Government, in which the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Naughten, played a key role, the Government indicated that a deal would be done and a contractor would be appointed by June 2017. That date slipped. Virtually every date that the Government has set since talking about a national broadband plan has been missed.

When asked repeatedly in the House to outline the projected contract signing date and the dates on which work would begin and be completed, the Minister dodged the questions and instead waxed lyrical about all of the broadband that was being rolled out throughout Ireland, failing to mention that it was being rolled out by commercial operators based on their commercial decisions and, in many cases, duplicated a pre-existing service in densely populated areas.

From his former role as Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, the Tánaiste knows the profile and character of rural Ireland. He knows the kind of people whom he has met on his visits there. He knows the farming communities, the small communities and the small businesses that support farming and require access to high-speed broadband. He knows the people who live in rural Ireland and the students who come home at the weekend or every night and need access to broadband in order to pursue their studies. People living in rural Ireland need access to broadband to conduct their banking and for their basic life pursuits, but they have been continuously deprived of it and have been sold a pup time after time.

When Vodafone and the ESB pulled out of the process, it should have raised a red flag in the Department concerned, but it did not. The withdrawal of Eir should have signalled a crisis in the process, but it has not. Amazingly, the Minister, Deputy Naughten, has welcomed the clarity provided by the withdrawal of Eir. He believes that shovels will be in the ground more quickly and that the project will now be delivered on budget and ahead of schedule. What cybergalaxy is the Minister living in? The situation is farcical. Months of detailed negotiations are still to take place between the remaining bidder and the Government on pricing and technical matters, so there is no guarantee that a deal can be arrived at or if the deal proposed by the Government will remain viable for the 25 years of the contract. The last thing the 542,000 homes and businesses need is another false dawn or, worse still, a contract that collapses a few years into operation.

Fianna Fáil proposed that this infrastructure should have been built and owned by the State. The Minister rejected that proposition, claiming that it would create significant delays to the project. The Government put its faith in the market, but the market has turned its back on the Government. In light of what has happened, will the Government now consider changing the nature of the tender so that the State will take responsibility for building and owning this infrastructure?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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First, the Government is acutely aware of the pressures in rural Ireland in terms of the need for broadband access. Like many Deputies, I grew up on a farm in a rural community. I know the responsibility the Government has to ensure that people in rural Ireland as well as people in urban centres can access the information and the opportunity that the Internet provides. They need speed to be able to do that and, by and large, delivering that speed requires fibre, which is exactly what the Government is committed to delivering by effectively State sponsoring the roll-out of broadband to the 500,000 or so households that currently do not have it. We are going to see that through.

We have been through a very complex tendering process to get there in terms of finalising a tender that will last for 25 years. That has been a competitive process. In many competitive processes, commercial operators pull out for commercial reasons if the processes do not suit them. That is what has happened here. We also have another operator - there is now only one left - that has been adamant that it is committed to this process. It wants to work with the Government on it and believes that it can do this.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Like the Government does with the metropolitan area networks.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Does it know where rural Ireland is?

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Please, Deputies.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Dooley's suggestion that the approach the Government should take after all of the work that has been undertaken to date-----

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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It might withdraw.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste should check his facts.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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There are about 80 people working on this for the State to get the contract right. We are expecting it to be concluded by September so that we can roll out State-sponsored broadband delivery rapidly after that. This is on top of what is already happening commercially, with about 300 farms per week, if the Deputy wants to raise the issue of agriculture, getting access to broadband. We want to accelerate that in parts of Ireland that do not have commercial solutions.

The idea that we should at this stage, because one operator has pulled out and we have another operator confirming that it wants to get on and do the business, stall the whole process and ask for another panel of experts to make recommendations would mean that nothing would happen for probably years and we would be starting all over again. The Minister has an assurance that, actually, we are almost where we need to be in terms of spending hundreds of millions of euro of taxpayers' money to make sure that rural Ireland gets the broadband it needs.

We are going to see this through. It has been complex and difficult, but we were only months away from approving a preferred bidder before September. That has essentially been fast-forwarded now and we need to work with Enet and others in the consortium which are big players in the sector. This is not a small operation. It is as big as the ESB or some of the bidders which have pulled out.

12:10 pm

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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How many people work for Enet? It is a tiny operation.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is not.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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It is.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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SSE is not a tiny operation.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Enet is a tiny operation. It has about 80 employees.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy's time has expired. He will have another minute.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Government is committed to doing this. Resources are not the problem. Finalising a complex contract is the issue and we hope to have that done by September, as opposed to the recommendation of others today to start all over again. That is certainly not what rural Ireland would thank us for.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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I too grew up on a farm and I know that if one goes to a market with a bullock and there is only one person there to buy it, one will take the price the person wants to offer. The Tánaiste is now suggesting that the Government now somehow has the upper hand. It is at the market and there is only one person there. Its back is to the wall. If the Government thinks it will be able to achieve the deadline which the Minister, Deputy Naughten, keeps avoiding questions on or that somehow it will get value for money for the taxpayer, it needs to wake up because it is not going to happen.

The fact of the matter is that the two companies with the greatest footprint in the State, the greatest experience and the most established operators which understand the marketplace have pulled out. If it is not plain to the Tánaiste and the Government that there is a serious problem with the contract and tender it is proposing, then it does not understand what is going on. It is about time that the Government faced up to what is happening. People are deeply concerned that the Government is not even committed to providing broadband to the 540,000 homes which need it. If it was, it would have treated this in a far more serious manner.

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Rubbish.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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Of course the Minister, Deputy Naughten, will refer to broadband being put into 100 farms every week. Those living on the edges of villages are being facilitated on a commercial basis. I suggest if the Minister is in any way disbelieving as to what I have said, he should visit his constituency this weekend.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I wish to set the record straight on something because there is a bit of politics being played with this issue. Broadband is a very emotive issue in rural Ireland.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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We do not have it.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is easy to raise concerns in regard to it. SSE is the second largest electricity supplier in the country. Enet is already a significant fibre operator in the country.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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How is it getting on with the-----

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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We have an credible consortium which has already engaged with the Department at length and submitted costings, proposals and so on. There was always going to be a preferred bidder at the end of this process with which the State would need to negotiate and finalise contracts. That is-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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It is a monopoly.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is not like we are starting this process again with one bidder.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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What are you hiding?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The process has nearly concluded.

Photo of Lisa ChambersLisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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No it has not.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Now we need to finalise it.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Deputies, please.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It will be concluded by September. We now have a bidder who is anxious-----

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Release Gavan Reilly's freedom of information request.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Donnelly might not like the answers but he has to listen to them.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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We are not getting an answer.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I am going to move on to Deputy Munster.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy does not want to hear the answer

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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You have no answers.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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This is not Deputy McGrath's opportunity to speak.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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Release Gavan Reilly's FOI request. Obey the courts and give him the FOI he has been granted by the courts. What are you hiding? What has he now got that you are hiding?

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Deputies should restrain themselves.

Photo of Imelda MunsterImelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Some manners, please. In 1994, an agreement was reached between the CIÉ employees and the company to amalgamate five pension schemes, thereby allowing it to remove a potential €73 million pension deficit from its book. In return, employees were given certain assurances, the first of which was that the board of CIÉ would guarantee the solvency of the pension schemes each year. The second commitment given was that there would be regular post-retirement increases, but no specific rate was given.

The company stuck to those commitments until 2009 when it failed to provide sufficient funding to ensure the solvency of the schemes in that year and in the following years. This was against the advice tendered by the company's actuary. Since then, the board of CIÉ has underfunded the pension scheme to the tune of around €80 million. The assurance given by the Minister states: "In every year there shall be a contribution from the board to a fund of such sum as the board after consulting the actuary determines to be necessary to support and maintain the solvency of the fund." Despite this, neither the Government nor the Minister has intervened to ensure that CIÉ adheres to that order. A blind eye has been turned to it.

Not only has the company underfunded the pension scheme, by extension it has jeopardised the solvency of both CIÉ pension scheme funds. This issue was raised by the NBRU and SIPTU. Yesterday, I proposed to the Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport that we invite the unions in to discuss these issues with the committee. It has agreed to do that. We will hear the unions' side of the story this month.

I ask the Tánaiste that to remember that we are talking about people's pensions. Last year, the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Ross, was very unhappy with the prospect of being a lot poorer because a large part of his pension from Independent News & Media was being cut. He blasted the proposals at that time as very unfair and unreasonable. I sincerely hope he sees the seriousness of this issue for the thousands of workers in CIÉ.

The Government and Department have serious questions to answer. Once again, it comes back to accountability and oversight pure and simple. It is also an issue which has been known about by successive Ministers for Transport, Tourism and Sport, one of whom is the current Taoiseach and another of whom is the Minister for Finance. It is not an issue the Government can ignore the because CIÉ has a legal obligation to adhere to the Minister's directive.

When was the underfunding of the pension scheme brought to the attention of the Minister? What did he do about it? Why was CIÉ allowed to disregard a ministerial directive? Will the Minister commit to an independent investigation into the governance of the two CIÉ pension schemes?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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With respect, the Deputy will have to ask some of those questions of the Minister. She asked a whole series of questions about what the Minister knew and when and what he did and when.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It is Leaders' Questions.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I will answer what I can today. Like many other semi-State companies, CIÉ has a responsibility towards its pensioners and workers who will be future pensioners in terms of ensuring that pension funds are solvent. Many, if not all, of the semi-State companies and agencies have sought to restructure pension funds accordingly. The ESB and Coillte have done so. CIÉ has worked with unions to ensure that there is an understanding around funding pension funds appropriately for the future. There is an obligation on the board and management of CIÉ to work with union representatives to make sure that is the case.

The Deputy said she will have an opportunity to tease some of those things out in committee and hear the concerns of unions, which I welcome. I would also like to make it very clear that boards and management in semi-State companies have a responsibility to face up to pension challenges, as the private sector has been doing for years. That sometimes involves co-operation and compromise from the union side. If that is not possible, then there is an infrastructure in the State to help to find compromise and resolution to those issues and problems. CIÉ should be no different.

Photo of Imelda MunsterImelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister completely ignored the question. It boils down to the fact that the Government has allowed CIÉ to show blatant disregard for a ministerial order. The issue was raised today in the Committee of Public Accounts by my colleague, Deputy Cullinane.

The Comptroller and Auditor General said this was a statutory, rather than a private, pension scheme. There are legislation and statutory instruments. The Minister knows what "statutory" means - it means responsibility and with responsibility comes accountability. The Government has allowed this to happen but I am quite sure it would not allow it to happen to its members' pensions, or I should say their multiple pensions. Over 10,000 CIÉ workers have been left in limbo for the past eight years because the Government has allowed CIÉ to ignore statutory instruments. The Government cannot hide behind CIÉ on this issue. CIÉ has, quite simply, broken the law and I wonder if the Tánaiste would care a bit more about it if it related to his pension. Was this issue not brought to the Cabinet's attention?

12:20 pm

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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A lot of semi-State companies have faced huge challenges in managing pension deficits in the past ten years and CIÉ is no different. I suspect there has been ongoing conversation between the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport and CIÉ on these issues.

Photo of Seán CroweSeán Crowe (Dublin South West, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Tánaiste not know?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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When I was in the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine we had conversations with Coillte on the same subject, because we had policy responsibility for semi-State companies. The Deputy is putting her question without providing me with detailed figures and we do not have a response from senior management or the board of CIÉ.

Photo of Imelda MunsterImelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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A statutory order was ignored by CIÉ.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Government has not ignored anything.

Photo of Imelda MunsterImelda Munster (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Government has ignored it for the past eight years.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Government has not ignored, and will not ignore, anything. We deal with semi-State companies all the time in the context of the pressures they face and this case is no different. If money needs to be found within the CIÉ system to address pension deficits, a process which will have to be gone through and it will involve consultation with unions. We have a State infrastructure to enable us to facilitate dialogue, discussion and negotiation. I suspect the Minister will be able to provide the Deputy with a more complete answer.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The seeds of the current lack of broadband were sown when Fianna Fáil privatised Telecom Éireann in 1999, removing the capacity of the State to ensure a high-speed network was developed quickly and for all areas. There are hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses across the country currently without access to high-speed broadband. The tendering process collapsed yesterday when Eir withdrew, the second bidder to do so. A tendering competition with one bidder is not a procurement process and I say that as the person who as Minister brought the last three procurement directives through the European Parliament. The notion that the Minister would now portray this latest development as a good thing is delusional at best and cynically misleading at worst. There is only one bidder so, by definition, the State now has no choice as to who will deliver the national broadband plan to 500,000 homes and businesses and it will only happen if the price of Enet can be afforded.

The incompetent way in which this has been handled leaves the State over a barrel on price and the timeframe of implementation. In effect, the country is now snookered and the Minister and his Department have lost control of the process. The delays in rolling out the plan have allowed the dominant, near-monopoly player to increase its market share. The original basis of the plan was critically undermined when the Minister allowed Eir to cherry pick over 300,000 homes in April 2017. Was there an evaluation of the plan at that time, or of the consequences of that decision? If one removes all the lucrative parts of any contract one should not be surprised when private businesses, which already dominate the market, decide they already have what they want and walk away from the process.

The Minister, Deputy Naughten, must take responsibility for this disaster. He managed to turn what had been a solid process into a mess, all in less than two years. SIRO, a joint venture between the ESB and Vodafone, withdrew from the tendering process in September stating there was no longer a business case once those 300,000 premises had been removed. That only left Eir and Enet. The Minister has facilitated a market grab by the largest player in the field, which already has a dominant position. Through the delays in delivering the plan, Eir has been able to build an even more dominant position and undermine the prospect of a credible roll-out plan.

The process over the past two years has driven credible providers out of the market. Yesterday's news leaves more than 500,000 homes and businesses with no prospect of viable connectivity in the years to come. Will the Government apologise to those who will now wait years for broadband, with no clear timeframe for when they will get it? Is it not now the case that the State is totally beholden to one provider which can name its price, determine the timeframe and laugh at the Government?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy signed off on this process.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Government has demolished it.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should let me answer his question.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The process had been robust but the Government has banjaxed it.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste without interruption.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Now that it is not politically convenient, the Deputy is not sticking with it. The Deputy said 300,000 homes were cherry picked but 120,000 of them now have broadband, whereas they would still be waiting if the commercial operator was not willing to roll out broadband to them, at its own expense.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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What about the other 500,000?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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If it had been pooled with the other 500,000, it would not have happened. The other 500,000 justifies, under State aid rules, significant public expenditure to pay for the roll-out of broadband and that is what is going to happen. A number of operators have been part of this process and some have chosen to pull out but that does not mean companies have not submitted costings. People are talking as if we are starting again. We are not starting again but are at the very end of a very complex process which the Deputy set up. We have one absolutely viable consortium which wants to do this with the State and has confirmed that again today. It has submitted costings and we want to develop a partnership with it to make sure the 500,000 homes which need broadband, but would not get it under commercial conditions, will get it because it will be sponsored by the State.

Our only focus is to get broadband to homes in rural Ireland as quickly as we can do that and that was the motivation behind giving the go-ahead for Eir to roll out broadband to 300,000 homes. The other 500,000 which are still waiting, in frustration, expect the Government to find a way of getting fibre to them as quickly as we can. Ending this process and starting all over again with a panel of experts is not the way to do this. We have loads of experts advising us on this.

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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How is that working out for you?

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Howlin also had those experts when he made his decisions in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. We are now at the end of the process he set up. It has been highly complex but by September we will have concluded a contractual arrangement with-----

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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With one bidder.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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-----the remaining consortium. We can give real hope to the-----

Photo of Stephen DonnellyStephen Donnelly (Wicklow, Fianna Fail)
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The shareholders.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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-----500,000 homes which need broadband that they will see it before the end of this year.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Tánaiste knows full well that what he is saying is not right. The plan to roll out broadband was on track until it was fatally undermined by the decision of the Minister last year.

Photo of Denis NaughtenDenis Naughten (Roscommon-Galway, Independent)
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Absolute rubbish.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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He said we were now at the end of a process but the Minister, Deputy Naughten, like Blackadder's Baldrick, is telling The Irish Timesthat he has a cunning plan B. Faced with disaster, he is potentially going to re-tender. What is plan B? If we are at the end of a process that will advance things, as we were told on "Six One" last night, why is he now telling us we might need a different process? It is top secret.

Will the Tánaiste explain to the House what plan B is, when these homes will have broadband and whether there is any control over the price that will be paid for it?

12:30 pm

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is being deliberately misleading. The plan B-----

Photo of Seán SherlockSeán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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It is in The Irish Times.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Let me answer the question. The Deputy probably does not want the answer so he can continue to create confusion.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Plan B will not be needed because e-net has been so definitive about wanting to see this process through. If the final consortium that is still involved in this process was to pull out, we would have look at a plan B but we are not at that stage and I do not see why Deputy Howlin sees us----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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There is no price-----

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy knows because he was involved-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy does not want to listen to the answer.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I have to move on.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I am asking all Deputies, including Ministers and Ministers of State-----

Photo of Patrick O'DonovanPatrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has amnesia.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Hold on, Deputy O'Donovan. It is a matter for the Tánaiste to make the case and defend himself and I do not think he needs any support.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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Stop defending the indefensible.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I have no control over what the Tánaiste says. I will give the Tánaiste an extra 30 seconds.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I can certainly tell the House that on this issue, I have no problem defending the issues because the former Minister, Deputy Howlin, knows very well because he was responsible for multiple procurement and tendering processes. That was his job. He knows that if in the course of a procurement process, commercial decisions are made where some of the bidders pull out but that does not mean that the whole process ends. What we have now is-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Howlin is normally orderly.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Towards the end of a process here where there are a number of months left before a preferred bidder was to be named, we have seen another bidder pull out. That does not mean that the State-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I am going to move on. I call Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Let me finish.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I have to control the House.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Well then control people who are interrupting me.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have time for interruptions either.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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People do not seem to want to be-----

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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The Tánaiste does not have to-----

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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No contracts are signed here. The obligation on the State is to see through this procurement process to get value for money for the State and to deliver broadband to homes. Judge this contract when it is signed in September and we get on with doing the business rather than continue a debate here on broadband and the lack of broadband delivery in rural Ireland which has gone on for years. We are looking to end that. Many other countries are following how Ireland is planning to do that and are looking to replicate what we are doing because we are a pioneer in this area to try to deliver broadband to areas that do not have commercial-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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I ask Deputies to act in an orderly fashion.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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The extent of the work that the Tánaiste and other Ministers, Departments, organisations and even the committees here have been doing regarding Brexit - all the worries, concerns and implications - has been obvious for quite some time. In the main, the focus has been on the economy and preparing the Irish economy for the impact. We have had so many discussions around business, agriculture, jobs, the Single Market, the customs union, the common travel area and how the Good Friday Agreement is being undermined. I look at all that and the drive, energy, work and commitment. I know it is very necessary but I also look at what is happening in the north inner city where I am looking for even a fraction of that drive, energy and commitment on the issues that have seen such an escalation in violence, a callous indifference to life and the neglect of those communities and their way of life.

I have heard comments that this violence and the number of murders in a small area would not be tolerated if it was to happen in the leafy suburbs of Dublin or Cork. I suppose it would not be tolerated but that is missing the point. The point is that it is not happening there and it would not happen there. It is because those leafy suburbs were not neglected in the way the communities in the north inner city have been over many years and through many Governments when one looks at the difference between the areas in terms of housing, infrastructure, environment, the health of the residents, jobs, careers, disposable income, access to a variety of social activities and progression in education. I would ask how much open drug dealing is happening on the streets of those leafy suburbs. It is because of that difference that the inner city has been a fertile ground for the drug industry and all the mayhem, chaos and violence it brings. It is telling that it took a string of murders to bring attention and focus on those issues in the north inner city.

I know it will not change overnight and I acknowledge the work that has started and the work of the gardaí and their successes through their intelligence gathering but the reality is that there was another murder on Tuesday night, the evening before the funeral of another murder victim. I think back to the first murder, which took place during the last election, but now it is almost like "oh, another murder in the north inner city, more of the gangland feud" and then it is forgotten about until the next one. It is likely that there will be more. The residents of the north inner city, particularly young people, teenagers and senior citizens, deserve the same respect as those who live in those leafy suburbs and they also deserve the same right to a peaceful existence enjoyed by people in other areas. This will not happen unless there is a real urgency and a real commitment to tackle those issues that have brought about the chaos we are experiencing.

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Not for the first time, I agree with an awful lot of what the Deputy said. The State's response here has to be across multiple different areas and initiatives. From a justice and policing point of view, the type of criminal behaviour we have seen again this week has no place in a civilised society and will not be tolerated by the Government. We are putting resources in place to ensure that this is the case. Operation Hybrid has been established by An Garda Síochána to co-ordinate the response to violent crime in Dublin and to address public safety concerns about community safety. Operation Hybrid benefits from significant support by armed support units. If we look at the result of that Garda response as of 21 January last, we see 72 arrests;13 charges in total, of which ten related to murder investigations and three of which related to other related offences; 34 firearms seized; in the region of 260 searches; and over 15,000 lines of inquiry conducted with more than 50,000 high-visibility checkpoints. There is a significant step up in terms of Garda presence.

I accept that this is not enough in terms of the State's collective response. This is why under the previous Taoiseach, who felt very strongly about this issue, as does the current Taoiseach, we set up a north-east inner-city initiative to which the Deputy contributed in terms of the thinking on that chaired by Michael Stone. The board includes representatives from the community and business sectors as well as key Government Departments and agencies. The board has met every month since it was established last June and will shortly publish its 2017 report, including a comprehensive detailed report on spending across multiple areas from education to youth development to community development to sports facilities and all the other things that are a real deficit for communities living in this part of Dublin versus communities in other parts of Dublin. That is a gap and deficit that this Government wants to overcome. We will put very significant resources in place to try to do that.

Photo of Maureen O'SullivanMaureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
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In respect of the Good Friday Agreement and the work of the British Irish Council on substance misuse, Ireland is the lead on that so I again ask that this work continue and that it be seen as a priority because with all this discussion about moveable or flexible borders, one wonders how the whole tracking of guns, money and drugs will be monitored. I go back to the point about inequality. During last week's Leaders' Questions, I referred to the report from the World Economic Forum, which spoke about the income inequality in Ireland and the soaring wealth inequality. It is that inequality that has led to the social deprivation and social neglect. I really feel for young people.

Young people will not be able to realise their potential because they are living in an environment where they are open to exploitation and manipulation. It is important that we get progress reports on the implementation of the Mulvey report. We need to address the gaps identified by communities in the Mulvey report.

12:40 pm

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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More than €2.5 million was provided in 2017 for a range of projects in the key areas of crime, drugs, education, training and employment opportunities, services for families and young people, and, of course, physical improvements to infrastructure in the community.

The Deputy referred to the North-South aspect. It is probably true to say there has never been better co-operation between An Garda Síochána and the PSNI than there is today. We need to ensure through Brexit and post Brexit that co-operation is maintained and sustained so that vulnerable people who are being targeted by criminal gangs are protected North and South, and that the movement of gangs across the Border is addressed in as comprehensive a way as we can address it from a security point of view.

The Government does not disagree with the concerns here. The shootings in the past week are horrific. We need to ask constantly if we can do more. I assure the Deputy that resources are not the problem here. If An Garda Síochána asks for more, for example, an increased emphasis on community policing and more resources for that, the Government's response will be very positive. Resources are not the issue here. From a policing perspective we need to listen to and work with An Garda Síochána on what it needs. From a broader community development perspective we need to reassess constantly.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Tánaiste-----

Photo of Simon CoveneySimon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That is why we have north-east inner city initiative to ask those questions constantly every month and to liaise with Government and Departments on it.

Photo of Pat GallagherPat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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Due to my being somewhat flexible at times - I believe I should be flexible - we have slipped by ten minutes because of interruptions and because speakers exceeded their minute or three minutes. We have 15 minutes for questions on promised legislation and, believe me, it will be about promised legislation. I am obliged to call first of all representatives of the parties and groups, starting with Deputy Dooley.