Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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3. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence when he will appoint an independent chairperson to commence the review of the Defence Forces conciliation and arbitration scheme; the reason the appointment had not been made by the end of 2017 as committed to the Defence Forces representative organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [3628/18]

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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My question was to ask when the Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, will appoint an independent chairperson to commence the review of the Defence Forces conciliation and arbitration scheme and why that appointment was not made by the end of 2017, as he had committed to doing to the representative associations. I now understand that since I tabled the question last week, the Minister of State has confirmed that an independent chairman, Mr. Gerard Barry, will be appointed. Following on from that, can the Minister of State outline the timeline within which he envisages that this review will be concluded?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The conciliation and arbitration scheme for members of the Permanent Defence Force provides a formal mechanism for the Permanent Defence Force representative associations, PDFORRA and RACO, to engage with the official side. Having regard to commitments made under pay agreements, members of the Permanent Defence Force can make representations in relation to their pay and conditions of service through their representative bodies.

Since its inception in the early 1990s, the scheme has provided the framework to progress many successful negotiated agreements between the management of the Defence Forces and PDFORRA and RACO. However, there have been many changes in the industrial relations landscape in the intervening period. I now consider it timely and appropriate to conduct a fundamental review of the scheme to ensure that it remains efficient and effective for all parties. In this regard, I previously announced my intention to initiate a fundamental review of the conciliation and arbitration scheme for members of the Permanent Defence Force. 

 In advance of initiating the review, I have been considering a number of possible approaches and giving consideration to the terms of reference. I also wanted to ensure that the review would be facilitated by a chairperson who would not only be independent, but would also bring knowledge and expertise to the assignment.  I informed the representative associations earlier this week and I am officially informing the House today of the appointment of the chairperson. I am respecting the House by informing it of the appointment of Mr. Gerard Barry to chair the review before announcing it publically. Mr. Barry has many years of experience in the field of industrial relations, having served as chief executive officer to the health service employers agency and on the board of the Labour Relations Commission. As chair of the review, Mr. Barry will seek input from all parties to the current Permanent Defence Force conciliation and arbitration scheme, including the Department of Defence, the Defence Forces, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform, PDFORRA and RACO. The chairperson will meet with all parties collectively and he may, if he deems it appropriate, meet with parties to the review individually. There will also be wider consultation with other stakeholders.

The final report is to reflect the agreed position of all parties at the end of the process. Where agreement cannot be reached, it will be open to the chairperson to make recommendations if he so wishes. I have directed that the chairperson provide a report to me not later than six months after the start of the review.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I think I might have beaten the Minister of State to it in informing the House of Mr. Barry's appointment. Nevertheless, I welcome the progress on this issue. When the Minister of State, Deputy Kehoe, was asked about this on "Prime Time", he said he did not think that it would be independent if we had RACO and PDFORRA sitting around the table. I am glad that he has moved from that position and that he now recognises that both representative organisations need to be present. I am glad that they are present. I welcome the appointment of Mr. Barry to the position of chair and I wish him well in his work.

The Minister of State is overstating the success of the current system that is in place. It has proved very challenging for the members serving in the Defence Forces. While the Minister of State now says that he considers it timely and appropriate to conduct a review of the conciliation and arbitration scheme, I put it to him that he only considers it such because he has been put under severe pressure by myself and others, and the representative associations, to carry out that review. Will the Minister of State confirm when the review will actually start? If is to conclude within six months from the start date, when is that start date?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I was put under pressure by nobody. I am very much my own man. If the Deputy listened to any of my replies in the House earlier, she would have heard me indicate that I wished to have some form of review of the conciliation and arbitration scheme. One thing I did was to listen to the representative associations, both PDFORRA and RACO. When I went to the PDFORRA conference in late 2017, it was not expected that I would attend. I said that I was going to carry out a full review of the existing conciliation and arbitration scheme and I am happy that will happen.

I am glad that the Deputy's contacts within the representative associations are alive and well and that she beat me to it this morning. However, I point out that I did not issue a press release on this. I respected the House and the Opposition spokespersons and I informed them during defence questions today that I have appointed Mr. Gerard Barry. I have asked Mr. Barry to meet the Secretary General and the Chief of Staff prior to starting the review. However, I expect that the review will start within the next week. I met Mr. Barry for quite a considerable time last week. I went through my own thoughts and feelings on the existing scheme and I asked him to report back to me within six months. I have every confidence that Mr. Barry will carry out the review and report back to me within six months.

Lisa Chambers (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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When the review is concluded, it might be prudent and appropriate for the House to have a discussion on that matter. I await the review with anticipation.

11 o’clock

Can the Minister of State confirm whether a military covenant, similar to that contained in the UK legislation and giving a commitment to the armed forces, will be included in the final agreement relating to industrial relations? The reason I ask - I know that the representative associations have raised this matter with the Minister of State - is because a member of the Defence Forces is a very special type of employee. Members of the Defence Forces forgo many of the rights the rest of us, as employees, take for granted. I will outline the key rights a member of the Defence Forces forgoes. They are: he or she is subject to military law 24-7, 365 days a year; the provisions of the EU working time directive do not apply to him or her; he or she has an obligation for duty 24/7, 365 days of the year; he or she can be posted anywhere, at any time by order; membership of a trade union is prohibited, and, by extension, affiliation to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, ICTU, is prohibited; industrial action is prohibited; and a mandatory early retirement age is imposed on him or her.

For the reasons I have outlined, a military covenant enshrining in legislation the special status of a Defence Forces employee has been called for by the representative associations and their members for a very long time. I very much support this. Can the Minister of State give a commitment that such a covenant will be included in the new review?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I will not give any commitments today on the outcome of the review. However, I have left the terms of reference broad enough for some of the issues that Deputy Lisa Chambers has outlined to be brought to the attention of the independent reviewer. It is totally up to both representative organisations to bring forward their views and thoughts on the special status the Deputy believes members of the Defence Forces have. The review of the conciliation and arbitration scheme is being conducted in the context of the current pay talks. We cannot go outside the public service pay agreement. However, there are other areas within that and there is scope within the terms of reference to bring those issues to the attention of the independent chairperson.