Brendan Ryan (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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45. To ask the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence the timeframe for Defence Forces pay restoration; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [53155/17]

Brendan Ryan (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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For too long, members of the Defence Forces have been treated like second-class citizens in the context of our public service workers. The Defence Forces have always been our last line in service provision. If the weather is too bad for commuting, the Army will be called in. In times past, the Army even cleared rubbish off our streets when industrial action led to environmental damage. The Defence Forces have never been treated on par with the rest of the public sector. That must change.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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As I stated in an earlier reply, the rates of pay and conditions of employment in the Defence Forces have traditionally been set by reference to relative levels of pay across the various parts of the public sector. Arising from the serious financial crisis the country faced, the pay of members of the Permanent Defence Force was reduced in a similar way to that of staff in other areas of the public service. The reductions in pay were on a graduated scale with higher percentages being deducted from those on higher earnings.

Under current and proposed public service pay agreements, pay is being restored to public servants, including members of the Permanent Defence Force. Successful negotiations with the Permanent Defence Force representative associations have provided for pay increases under the Lansdowne Road agreement, the most recent of which were paid to members of PDFORRA in July, together with arrears dating back to 1 January 2016.

The Government is prioritising legislation to provide for further pay increases to all public servants, including members of the Defence Forces, under the Public Service Stability Agreement 2018-2020. Under the provisions of the Public Service Pay and Pensions Bill 2017, it is anticipated that between 2018 and 2020 the pay of members of the Defence Forces and other public servants earning less than €70,000 will be restored to pre-FEMPI levels.

The timetable for the restoration of pay as set out in the agreement is as follows: from 1 January 2018 annualised salaries will increase by 1%; from 1 October 2018 annualised salaries will increase by 1%; from 1 January 2019 annualised salaries up to €30,000 will increase by 1%; from 1 September 2019 annualised salaries will increase by 1.75%; from 1 January 2020 annualised salaries up to €32,000 will increase by 0.5%; and from 1 October 2020 annualised salaries will increase by 2%. The agreement also provides for the restoration of the 5% reduction in allowances under FEMPI from 1 October 2020. The proposals have been presented for consideration to the Permanent Defence Forces representative associations and acceptance will be subject to ballot by their members.

Brendan Ryan (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State. Those provisions are not good enough and a special arrangement for the Defence Forces is needed. The Minister is aware of the 24-hour demonstration by wives and partners of Defence Forces members that took place on 30 November outside Leinster House. Those spouses highlighted that members of the Defence Forces are still the poorest-paid public servants and some struggle to meet food and living costs, with many depending on family income supplement, as has previously been raised in the House. The lowest-rank of Defence Forces officer is paid a little under €300 per week. How can anyone sustain themselves on such a wage, let alone a family, when housing costs alone are taken into consideration, not to mention utilities and basic life needs. Some members of the Defence Forces who have 15 years' service are struggling to make ends meet. The Defence Forces representative bodies, including Permanent Defence Force Other Ranks Representative Association, PDFORRA, are currently unable to access the industrial relations mechanisms of the State. It is up to the Minister of State to put in place a mechanism and timetable to ensure members of the Defence Forces are paid a professional wage that will afford them a standard of living equivalent to that of other public servants and which will reflect the great work they do on behalf of the State.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy was in government with me from 2011 to 2016 and saw at first hand the challenges faced by the country and the decisions that had to be taken. Now that we are in better economic times, there is an opportunity to give back to all public servants what was taken from them during the recession. That is why the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Donohoe, has set out a clear timetable for pay restoration for anyone earning less than €70,000. As the Deputy is aware, all public servants who signed up to the Lansdowne Road Agreement received an increase. The Representative Association of Commissioned Officers, RACO, signed up very early to that agreement and PDFORRA signed up earlier this year and received back payments thereunder. As the Deputy is aware, further pay increases will be paid under the Lansdowne Road agreement. The Public Service Pay and Pensions Bill 2017, which addresses FEMPI measures, passed through the Dáil last week and is currently making its way through the Senate. As I stated, it will be a matter for both associations to ballot on that and I encourage them to return a positive outcome in that regard. There has also been provision for a €5,000 increase for all members of the Defence Forces who joined since 2013.

Brendan Ryan (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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It is time for the Defence Forces to be recognised in the industrial relations sphere in order that its members be protected from the working poverty that many currently experience. If the Garda Representative Association can be negotiated with, why can the same not be done with the Defence Forces representative associations? The Minister of State rightly said that there were difficult times in the past but as the economy improves we cannot let what happened before happen again. Sectors of society, including parts of the public sector, cannot be left behind. The Government cannot continue to preside over a body of personnel of whom up to 20% are in receipt of family income supplement. That is immoral. The Minister of State needs to get his hands around the issue and prioritise decent wages and conditions for the men and women of the Defence Forces.

The leader of the Labour Party, Deputy Howlin, last month called for a special review of the Defence Forces. The Minister of State referred to the general, across-the-board review but there is a need for a special review of the Defence Forces and I again call for that to be done. It is urgently required and there would be no opposition in the House to it but, rather, there would be agreement from all sides in view of the situation in respect of pay in the Defence Forces. All Members would support it and there would be no opposition from other public servants. I ask the Minister of State to acknowledge that he might consider or push for that.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy stated that 20% of members of the Permanent Defence Forces are in receipt of family income supplement. I ask him to check his figures. Fewer than 117 members of the Defence Forces out of a total personnel of a little over 9,200 are in receipt of family income supplement. To state that 20% are in receipt of family income supplement is untrue. That myth has been peddled in recent times. The correct figures are available from the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection for anybody to check.

Brendan Ryan (Dublin Fingal, Labour)
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If any members are in receipt of family income supplement, too many are in receipt of it.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Plenty of public servants receive family income supplement and that depends on their family circumstances, which is why the payment is available. I have put in place a full review of the conciliation and arbitration scheme as both PDFORRA and RACO have sought for many years and will soon be announcing a chairperson in that regard. I heard Deputy Howlin's proposal last week regarding taking out members of the Defence Forces. It would be great to do that but how long would it last? One would then want every other public sector worker to be taken out. All Members saw what happened prior to 2011. We must act in an appropriate manner with public finances.