Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)
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I move:

That Dáil Éireann, pursuant to section 4(2)(f)(iv) of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Acts, 2003 to 2015, hereby authorises the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission to instruct solicitor(s), Junior Counsel(s) and/or Senior Counsel(s) to conduct the defence of legal proceedings against Members of Dáil Éireann, (Record No. 2017/10667 P), entitled, Joe Costello v The Oireachtas, the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Ireland and the Attorney General, as regards matters arising solely from the performance of parliamentary functions.

As a member of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, I formally move the motion which requests Dáil Éireann to authorise the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission to conduct a defence of legal proceedings taken against the Oireachtas. On Monday of this week proceedings were issued in the High Court, as set out in the text of the motion on today's Order Paper. The proceedings named, among other parties, the Oireachtas as one of the defendants in the case. Under the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Acts, the commission can, in legal proceedings initiated against Members of Dáil Éireann or Seanad Éireann as regards matters arising solely from the performance by Members of their parliamentary functions, authorise the conduct of a defence of legal proceedings on behalf of or for the benefit of Members. The Houses of Oireachtas Commission considered the proceedings and agreed to conduct a defence of the legal proceedings. Therefore, pursuant to section 42(f) of the Houses of the Oireachtas Commission Acts, I move the motion to request Dáil Éireann to authorise a defence of the legal proceedings.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is correct that the course of action outlined be taken. For anyone to contemplate taking a court action in this instance to force the Dáil agenda or delay or interfere with the right of the Taoiseach to seek the dissolution of the Dáil is a step too far. It is for this House to decide its business. It is for the Government to decide its business. We can make recommendations to and cajole, beg and implore a Government to take our issues on board, but to seek to dictate from outside the business of the Dáil for the sake of having an extra seat in a constituency is a step too far.

I am aware of the constitutional provision and the right of people to be represented, but it has to be operated within reason. The boundaries of a constituency can no more be changed on the day the census results are published than on the day the Constituency Commission reports. Perhaps a mechanism should be included in future electoral amendment legislation to ensure that when a boundary commissions is set up, its report will be adopted in law within three months, unless previously passed by the Houses of the Oireachtas. That is something we can consider, but it was not considered prior to the setting up of the boundary commission. For us to decide anything other than this and not to defend the Houses of the Oireachtas and our duty to set our own business in this House would be wrong. It is right that the House defend itself.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Unlike the previous speaker, I will not try to determine what the decision will be of the High Court which constitutionally is independent. We should not be making decisions for it on the floor of the House. All Members of the House have to live by the Constitution. Bunreacht na hÉireann is the basic law to which we are all obliged to adhere. Article 16(2)(ii) is crystal clear. The courts will make a determination, but, in truth, the initiative taken by Joe Costello has had an effect in that the Business Committee has now tabled for debate the Boundary Commission Bill, all Stages of which are to be taken next Thursday. I commend Deputy Joe Costello-----

Eugene Murphy (Roscommon-Galway, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is looking into the future.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I commend former Deputy Joe Costello - I hop he will be a Deputy in the future - for taking the initiative and seeking to ensure his constituents will be properly represented numerically in the next Dáil.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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His constituents are very well represented.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I commend the Business Committee for the alacrity with which it has responded to the legal proceedings initiated by him.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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May I make a statement on behalf of Deputy Mary Fitzpatrick?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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We do not have much to add-----

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick County, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is going to add something anyway.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----except to say it appears that there is nothing that gets Members of this Chamber more excited than the issue of seats. They are more excited about it than the issues which concern the people. The matter has been resolved in that the boundary commission will be legislated for next week and the appropriate level of representation proportionate to the size of population will be established. I do not believe there is a particular need now for us to act and presume the proceedings will be withdrawn by Mr. Joe Costello on foot of this. While I understand the Houses of the Oireachtas will have to be formally represented, I am not in favour, without a substantial debate if the matter remains controversial, of assenting to a particular defence. It would have to be discussed properly, certainly by our group, as to whether we should defend the right of the House not to have people adequately represented or, for that matter, the other side of the argument. It is academic at this point.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary, Independent)
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I am delighted that the Business Committee has taken this course of action as we have no choice but to defend the legal proceedings, although I vindicate the right of former Deputy Joe Costello or any citizen to take a case. The Government needed to be prodded and former Deputy Joe Costello prodded it well. The matter has been placed on the Order Paper for next week and will be discussed and debated and the Bill enacted. While the boundary commission will take some time to discuss the matter, the legislation should not be unduly delayed. Deputy Alan Kelly wrote to everybody in Tipperary claiming credit for the change in that county. He is mad to have a change made. He almost had heart failure last week on "Prime Time" over not getting his way; therefore, he will be saying, "Aye, aye, Sir," again when he gets going.

Pat Gallagher (Donegal, Fianna Fail)
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That is very relevant.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Social Democrats)
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There are two principles at stake, one of which concerns the right of the House to order its own business. I absolutely believe we should not invite the courts to get involved in that matter. The second principle concerns inequality in representation. In 2007 I was involved in a constitutional challenge on that issue as there were great variations in some constituencies. In ten constituencies there were very significant variations. In a Dáil that is very finely balanced it can matter in the choice of Government formed. I believe it will be a moot point, given that the legislation is to be passed before Christmas. I hope that means that this challenge will be withdrawn.

In the case Deputy Finian McGrath and I took in 2007 neither of our constituencies was going to be affected by the proposed change.

Nor did we seek to contend that the election should not be held. The hearing happened during the election campaign. Mr. Justice Frank Clarke, the judge involved, said at the time that there was an obligation not only on the Government but also on the Oireachtas to set in train immediately the review of constituencies. He said the matter was of the utmost importance. We should learn some lessons in this regard, specifically that such a review must be done in a very timely way once the census of population has concluded. That is what we sought in 2007 and I think that is what has been happening since.