Frank O'Rourke (Kildare North, Fianna Fail)
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We have been contacted by the office of the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Heather Humphreys, who has advised that the second Topical Issue in the name of Deputy Joan Burton will be taken by the Minister of State, Deputy Paul Kehoe.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I had not heard that the Minister was not going to appear in the Chamber. I am disappointed that she is not present as she is the Minister with responsibility for culture and this matter was very much directed at her. I will wait to hear what the Minister of State, Deputy Paul Kehoe, has to say on her behalf, but this is most unsatisfactory. With no disrespect to him, had I been advised of this information, I would not have accepted this arrangement.

I wish to ask Deputy Heather Humphreys as the Minister with responsibility for culture whether she agrees that orchestras, in particular, the two RTÉ orchestras, the national symphony and concert orchestras which were founded in 1948, are an intrinsic part of our culture? Does she agree that music is an intrinsic part of our culture? It is something for which we are known and celebrated throughout the world, yet we seem to be on a slow march towards dismantling the numbers of employees working with the orchestras and possibly doing away with one of them entirely.

The Minister has not come into the House to take this matter, but I want to ask her as the Minister with responsibility for culture and a successor to a former Minister, Michael D. Higgins, now President, who established the first Department of Culture, what her vision or fís is for orchestras in the playing of music in this country? Are we on the road to almost having a plot that one might see in an opera in which music, particularly classical and orchestral music in RTÉ, will be killed in a death by a thousand cuts? Already RTÉ is 30 professional musicians short and by next year, it may be 40 short.

I am not aware that in its history Fine Gael has been particularly committed to culture, but this is shocking. When Creative Ireland was established during the centenary commemorations, as the then Tánaiste, I strongly supported widening the investment in culture to rebuild the national cultural institutions, including the National Concert Hall, yet we have an important short debate taking place on the matter today and the Fine Gael-led Government has not been able to send the Minister into the House to take it.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I apologise on behalf of the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Deputy Heather Humphreys, who, at short notice, has been unable to make it into the Chamber. I remind the Deputy that she was once Tánaiste and a Minister when she would have got other Ministers to take Adjournment Debate matters on her behalf.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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They always contacted the Deputies involved.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I understand that, but the Minister was unable, at short notice, to come to the Chamber to take this matter and I apologise on her behalf. I have been asked by her Minister to take it on her behalf.

Our colleague, the Minster for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Denis Naughten, has statutory responsibility for broadcasting and his remit includes RTÉ. The Minister, Deputy Heather Humphrey's Department has no role in that regard. She understands RTÉ is an independent public service broadcaster which was established under the Broadcasting Act 2009. Section 114 of the Act sets out the objects of RTÉ which include the objective "to establish and maintain orchestras, choirs and other cultural performing groups". Section 98 of the Act establishes the independence of RTÉ in pursuance of its objects.

The Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment and his officials have certain responsibilities in respect of RTÉ, particularly regarding a range of policy and governance issues. It is understood the RTÉ National Symphony Orchestra and the RTÉ Concert Orchestra provide the only full-time salaried employment for orchestral musicians in Ireland. In line with a model found in over 30 European countries, both orchestras have been part of the public broadcasting company since their foundation by RTÉ in the 1940s. As a result, they reach large national and international broadcast audiences, in addition to their live event audiences for large year-round programmes. Both RTÉ orchestras are funded by RTÉ as part of its public service remit.

The Arts Council which comes within the remit of the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht provides funding for two smaller and regularly performing orchestras - the Irish Chamber Orchestra and the Irish Baroque Orchestra - which are occasionally supported through Culture Ireland for their work abroad. The Irish Chamber Orchestra which retains 22 musicians on part-time retainer contracts specialises in classical music written for small string chamber orchestras. The Irish Baroque Orchestra which has a core of 12 to 16 uncontracted project-based freelance players is a specialist orchestra that plays predominantly 17th and 18th century classical music exclusively on historical period instruments. Both of these smaller orchestras have lower levels of public activity than the two full-time RTÉ orchestras. In 2017 the Arts Council allocated funding of €916,000 to the Irish Chamber Orchestra, while an allocation of €208,000 was made to the Irish Baroque Orchestra. The three other professional performing groups supported by Arts Council funding are the Crash Ensemble, Chamber Choir Ireland and the Contempo Quartet. All three groups receive occasional project-funding support from Culture Ireland for performances abroad. In addition to the two orchestras and the three regularly funded groups, a large and varying number of established and ad hocprofessional groups access non-recurring public funding through Arts Council funding programmes to support them in touring, commissions of new work, one-off music projects and fixed-term residencies.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Having listened to the poor Minister of State who was asked to deliver that script, I know why the senior Minister did not come in. It is a disgrace. We are proud of our culture in this country. It is an insult to the musicians who work in the two orchestras that the Minister responsible for culture was unable to grace this Chamber for the debate. I mean no disrespect to the Minister of State, Deputy Paul Kehoe, when I say that. At least he had the courage to be here. He was certainly handed a patsy to read.

Will the Government apologise to musicians? Will it apologise to the large numbers of young people who are studying music to degree level with a view to becoming professional musicians? Where is their employment going to be if we are working systematically to downgrade the number of people who work with the RTÉ orchestras, possibly with a view to axing one of them entirely? Music lovers and the members of the Musicians Union of Ireland and SIPTU want to see the orchestras restored to their full status. We want to see a thriving culture of music learning and appreciation in schools and at degree level in universities. We probably have the smallest orchestra provision of any small European country. Our orchestras are based in RTÉ because the custom when they were founded in 1948 was to have radio orchestras that broadcast to people around the country in order that they could enjoy classical music.

The Minister of State was part of the discussions when Topical Issue debates were introduced. One of the reforms promised by the Government at the time was that the relevant Minister would appear. If he or she could not appear, which can happen, an apology would be provided as part of the discussion with the Deputy who placed the Topical Issue. We were told that it would be possible, with the agreement of the Chair, for the Deputy in question to refuse to proceed with the Topical Issue on the day and ask to raise it with the Minister in the Chamber on another day. Will the Minister of State ask the senior Minister to reschedule this debate in order that we can be given some answers as part of a response in favour of the retention of the orchestras?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I dispute the Deputy's questioning of the Government's commitment to the national orchestras. As I said in my initial reply, the statutory remit of the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment includes broadcasting and RTÉ. I set out the position on the RTÉ orchestras. The Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht is very committed to culture. I agree with what the Deputy said about the importance of music, culture and everything like it. The Irish Chamber Orchestra receives annual funding of €916,000.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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We are not talking about the Irish Chamber Orchestra but the RTÉ orchestras.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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It is important to note that the Minister, Deputy Heather Humphreys, does not have overall responsibility for RTÉ.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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The Taoiseach does not agree with the Minister of State. He has told me that he wants to see the orchestras being retained.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Absolutely. Of course, we want to see them being retained. As a Minister of State on this side of the House, I want to see them being retained. This matter falls under the stewardship of the Minister, Deputy Denis Naughten, whose statutory remit includes broadcasting and RTÉ.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Does that mean that the Minister for Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht has no interest in the orchestras in RTÉ?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is pulling at straws when she tries to accuse the Minister, Deputy Heather Humphreys, of having no interest in this matter. Of course, she has huge interest in it. Perhaps the Deputy should speak to the Minister, Deputy Denis Naughten, in the first instance to see how we can proceed on the issue.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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As her ministerial title indicates, the Minister, Deputy Heather Humphreys, is responsible for culture.