Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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In the middle of all the palaver we witnessed today in the resignation of the Tánaiste and Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation the communications committee was told that it had to rush through a report on the future funding of public broadcasting. The way it was done was shameful. It was a draft report, on which a full discussion had yet to take place, but we rushed it through. The key and, for most people, the most significant mechanism contained in the report is giving the Revenue Commissioners the duty to collect the television licence fee.

I do not know what planet most Members of the Dáil are living on, but if they tell people who are hurting the most in trying to pay taxation, be it the property tax or stealth taxes such as bin charges, that the tax man is to take the television licence fee from their salary or social welfare payment, they will really punish them. I hope this will come back to bite them many times in the bum when the next election takes place.

With regard to the recommendation that the Revenue Commissioners collect the television licence fee, it was originally included in the document as a household charge, but the committee copped on and realised how sensitive that would be. The fee is €160 per home, regardless of what device is used to look at the broadcasting media, be it an iPhone, an iPad, a laptop, a computer or a television. The only exemptions are for old age pensioners who are granted the exemption when they are over 70 years of age and other social welfare recipients.

An Post lost €15.6 million in revenue last year and PricewaterhouseCoopers, PwC, forecasts that it will lose €61 million in 2017. It astounded me to hear rural Deputies passionately supporting this measure, knowing that taking the responsibility for collection of the television licence fee from the An Post network and moving it to the Revenue Commissioners would hurt more of the post office network throughout the country which has already been hit disgracefully, with post offices shutting down left, right and centre. Whether one's post office is located in Cleggan or Rialto, this is a big blow to the network. The only reason it is being done is that, according to the most recent records for the numbers of people sent to prison, more than 400 people, three quarters of whom were women, many of whom were lone parents, were sent to jail in 2014 for not paying their television licence fee and the ensuing fine. When people could not be forced to pay it in that manner, it was decided to use the big stick of the Revenue Commissioners. It is using a big stick to crack open a nut.

Consider what is being streamed into Ireland through Sky or Virgin Media. Their profits are going through the roof. Virgin Media's profits surged by 38% last year, while Sky's profits were up by 12% to €1.2 billion in the United Kingdom and Ireland.

Why is somebody not going after them for special taxation on the question of broadcasting? They have lobbied that committee so many times we are now seeking legal advice as to whether RTÉ should be given the right to negotiate re-transmission fees from these global corporations. It is outrageous and disgraceful. What is more outrageous is that within that context, this was being pushed through this morning when the whole country was engaged in what was happening with the Tánaiste without any decent recognition of the impact this will have on ordinary people and the taste that will be left in the mouth and without due regard to how the Government will force the collection through Revenue of €160 from people who can barely afford to cover the stuff the Government is already taking from them.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for putting down this Topical Issue, which I am taking on behalf of the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment. I recognise the important part that public service broadcasters play in our democratic society. The provision of stable and adequate funding is essential to ensuring the continued delivery of their role in this regard. I am very much aware, however, of the challenges that face the existing TV licence system, including the current unacceptable levels of evasion. While the rate has fallen from 15.3% at the end of 2013 to the current rate of 14.6%, it is still very high.

In addition, the number of households required to have a licence under the current system is declining due to a departure from traditional viewing habits. Recent reports show that 9% of households no longer have a television set. While the current TV licence fee model has provided a measure of stability to date, the rapid changes in technology altering the traditional way in which television is watched together with economic pressures generally means that a serious question mark exists over the ability of the current funding model to provide continued stable funding for public service media in the long term.

In October 2016, the Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment requested that the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment examine the longer term issue of the future funding of public service media. As the Deputy will be aware, the committee considered this issue following a period of public consultation and stakeholder engagement. This has coincided with the committee's pre-legislative scrutiny of the Broadcasting (Amendment) Bill, which is due to be published in the coming weeks. The joint Oireachtas committee launched its report on the future funding of public service broadcasting earlier today. The Minister welcomes the publication of the report and is grateful to the committee for responding to his request to examine this important issue. As the Deputy will appreciate, this is a comprehensive report of over 300 pages which the Minister has not yet had time to consider. However, the Minister looks forward to examining the committee’s recommendations, which will help inform future policy options for public service broadcasting. Once the contents of the report have been considered, it is the Minister’s intention to bring proposals to Cabinet on funding options in the near future. In the meantime, there will be no change to the existing TV licence fee arrangements and An Post will continue to work as the issuing agent for television licences in accordance with section 145 of the Broadcasting Act 2009.

Bríd Smith (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I thank the Minister of State for clarifying the bit about what will happen in the mean time but the plan as clearly stated in the report is to give the job of collecting the TV licence fee to Revenue. I further point out that the report is also ambivalent about whether it will give RTÉ the right to collect re-transmission fees from the likes of Sky and Virgin, whose profits I have just quoted, who also re-transmit a lot of our GAA games and indigenous programmes. Again, this is trying to put the blame, responsibility and financial onus back on ordinary people who consume TV, be it through a laptop, iPhone or iPad and I think it is outrageous. Any argument that we need to up our game in terms of collecting revenue is not acceptable because when one looks at what the Government has done in the Finance Bill and taxation levels from the likes of Apple, REITs, vulture funds and the construction industry which get away with blue murder in not paying their fair share of tax, one can see that the Government cannot justify loading it on to ordinary people.

The most extraordinary thing in justifying this was listening to Deputies, particularly those from Fianna Fáil, who actually said at the committee that Facebook is a threat to democracy. Hello - what is that about? Facebook is a threat to democracy because ordinary people can access and interact with it, say what they feel and think and can learn more than they ever did from RTÉ. Facebook is a threat to democracy but yet so many people complain and often refuse to pay their TV licence, as my colleagues on this side of the House would have done, for many years because they were not allowed to be broadcast on RTÉ. What is this business about a threat to democracy and the need to do this broadcasting funding model on the basis of improving the openness of what we access in terms of media? It is nonsense. Tell every child out there or even people my age who increasingly use it that Facebook is a threat to democracy and see the answer you get. This is an outrageous model and I hope that between now and when the Bill is put out that many Deputies will get behind the arguments I am making here and stop it coming through.

Seán Kyne (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for her response. I appreciate that she is a member of the committee and I am sure she took part fully in the debate and public hearings that were held on the discussions as part of the consideration of this. This is a cross-party report. I appreciate that it is not a unanimous report. It was published today. With regard to the timing of it, the Deputy can take it up with the committee at its next meeting. I cannot say whether or not it was rushed. I do not know. The Deputy can take that up with the Chairman of the committee and have a discussion at the next meeting of the committee.

There are a number of recommendations in the report. The Deputy highlighted the one relating to Revenue taking over responsibility for collecting the TV licence fee. Conscious of promoting fairness and equity, the committee recommends that the concessions that are currently available to social welfare recipients are retained in any future funding model and the broadening of the ability and applicability of the existing charging regime to capture every household consuming media regardless of the technology used. The committee says that such a new regime would incorporate all households, not just those in possession of a traditional TV. It also states that the introduction of a non-device dependent public service broadcasting charge is feasible, efficient and practical considering the increasing threats to the sustainability of the current licence fee revenue. There are many people who are not paying the TV licence fee for whatever reason. If everyone paid it, perhaps it could be reduced so it would be more equitable. Like a lot of charges, not everyone pays it and this was the purpose of the Minister asking the committee to examine these issues.

Regarding the Deputy's comments about Facebook and democracy, I certainly do not believe Facebook is a threat to democracy. It is a very important part of social media and widely used by all age groups across the country. I will certainly take the issues raised by the Deputy on board and relay them to the Minister. If it is eventually decided at Cabinet that Revenue should take over responsibility for collecting the TV licence fee, it must obviously come to the Dáil in terms of reform of the Broadcasting Act and there can be a full debate at that stage but at this stage it is only a recommendation of the committee that will be examined by the Minister when he has time to do so.